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Old 02-26-2021, 06:18 AM   #43
DarkSideFRS
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You're thinking about Kia from 10 yrs ago.
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More like 20 years ago. I seem to remember Hyundai-Kia making great strides in the reliability department even from 10 years ago.
Nah. They still suck. The elantra motor recall was just as bad as the valve spring recall on the FRS lol. They didn't have enough motors for the recall and a lot of ppl had to wait months to get a replacement motor. I know some ppl who were affected. They never bought any hyundai or KIA products again

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/tech/...all/index.html

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/hyundai...gine-problems/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...ine-fires.html
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Old 02-26-2021, 08:15 AM   #44
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Nah. They still suck. The elantra motor recall was just as bad as the valve spring recall on the FRS lol. They didn't have enough motors for the recall and a lot of ppl had to wait months to get a replacement motor. I know some ppl who were affected. They never bought any hyundai or KIA products again

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/tech/...all/index.html

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/hyundai...gine-problems/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...ine-fires.html

The KIA and Hyundai/Genesis cars have definitely made improvements over the years, but they certainly aren't anywhere near the level of quality that you find in Toyota and Lexus. Their engines simply don't hold up over time, even with proper maintenance.

Also, KIA and Hyundai dealers were (are) buying used engines from wrecking yards to replace those failed engines under warranty. That's a BAD move and one reason why I would stay far away from any of those cars.
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Old 02-26-2021, 08:36 AM   #45
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.. they certainly aren't anywhere near the level of quality that you find in Toyota and Lexus.
Agh yes, the mythical reliability of Toyota.....

I've owned two real Toyota cars in my life, my beloved 1985 Toyota MR2 and a Geo Prism (which was a Toyota Corolla in GM clothing). I don't consider the 86 a "Toyota" car based on part count.

I loved the MR2, but in it's 150,000 miles, I had to replace the timing belt 3 times (it always broke before the maintenance interval), the driver's side window register 3 times, the passenger side register once, the boots twice, the air conditioning compressor, the sunroof leaked on occasion and ultimately it began to burn oil around 110,000 miles forcing me to get rid of it. It also went from red to bright pink as an exterior color.

The Prism had to have clutch issues throughout it's life with us (we only kept it about 50,000 miles) and the passenger side window leaked no matter what we did to fix it.

On the other hand, I've had multiple "unreliable' GM products that have gone 200,000 or more without any major repairs beyond standard maintenance.

I guess it just goes to show that reliability is a local issue as @Tcoat has said.
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Old 02-26-2021, 08:45 AM   #46
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:54 AM   #47
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Agh yes, the mythical reliability of Toyota.....

I've owned two real Toyota cars in my life, my beloved 1985 Toyota MR2 and a Geo Prism (which was a Toyota Corolla in GM clothing). I don't consider the 86 a "Toyota" car based on part count.

I loved the MR2, but in it's 150,000 miles, I had to replace the timing belt 3 times (it always broke before the maintenance interval), the driver's side window register 3 times, the passenger side register once, the boots twice, the air conditioning compressor, the sunroof leaked on occasion and ultimately it began to burn oil around 110,000 miles forcing me to get rid of it. It also went from red to bright pink as an exterior color.

The Prism had to have clutch issues throughout it's life with us (we only kept it about 50,000 miles) and the passenger side window leaked no matter what we did to fix it.

On the other hand, I've had multiple "unreliable' GM products that have gone 200,000 or more without any major repairs beyond standard maintenance.

I guess it just goes to show that reliability is a local issue as @Tcoat has said.
I base that by what I read, see, experience, and hear from mechanics that work on all types and makes of vehicles.

I see less Toyotas broken down on the side of the road than any modern American branded vehicle.

I've owned Honda, Mazda, Ford, Oldsmobile, Chevrolet, Toyota and Scion vehicles.

Between family members in my household, we currently own a total of five Toyota/Scion models, the oldest of which are my two first generation Solaras, and the newest is the old lady's '19 RAV-4. We have had no MAJOR issues from any of these cars. I also had two other first gen Solaras as well with no other major issues, except for the '04 parts car I got for free that was wrecked and had no motor or transmission in it. The '99 manual V6 Solara was sold just last year because I just had too many cars to keep up with. Other than the common exhaust leak at the flex pipe underneath, it was working pretty much perfectly when I sold it for $3,900. I hear the new owner had the flex pipe replaced and just loves it.

So yes, I stand by Toyota vehicles. And until Toyota gives me a reason to make a different choice, I will continue to purchase their products exclusively.
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Count to muffens and call again.
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Old 02-26-2021, 10:51 AM   #48
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So yes, I stand by Toyota vehicles. And until Toyota gives me a reason to make a different choice, I will continue to purchase their products exclusively.
Perfectly understandable, given your history with Toyotas.

The bottom line is though, most modern cars from the major manufacturers are relatively as reliable as a Toyota. Toyota doesn't have some magic sauce they bathe all their cars with that makes them more or less reliable than cars from other manufacturers.

I'm pretty much brand agnostic. If I count them up, I've probably owned more domestic cars than foreign and more GM cars than anything else. That said, I've owned Dodge, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Scion, Volvo, Fiat, Chevrolet, Buick, Saturn, Volkswagen off the top of my head.

In terms of repair, by far the Volvo C70 was the worst of the bunch, but to be fair it was purchased 10 years old, and had many miles on it. In terms of non-maintenance repairs, the 2 Toyotas as described and the Honda Accord (which needed a rebuilt transmission at 75K) rank towards the worst.

Thing is, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a new or used car from any of them again, although I might not by a high mileage Volvo again.
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:01 AM   #49
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I don't consider the 86 a "Toyota" car based on part count.
yup.. it's a subaru and i hated it

i love the sw20 mr2.. i am actually looking for one.. toyotas and hondas are super reliable... my family owned at least a couple dozen over the years and never had any major issues...
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:07 AM   #50
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i love the sw20 mr2.. i am actually looking for one..
I'm always looking for one, but the good examples always end up being California cars. Local ones are always beat up rust buckets or heavily modified. I've almost pulled the trigger a couple of times. My biggest problem is having a place to put it, I'm out of garage/driveway space right now!
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:38 AM   #51
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Way too many people getting stingers and regretting it. The novelty of it wears off almost immediately after test drive.
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:55 AM   #52
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

-Giulia - looks very intriguing. Might be what i'm looking for. I'll have to check it out.
- wrx - just personal preference, but it's not my style. maybe the next gen.
- used isf - like the idea, just seem hard to find.
- trd camry - put it on the list half joking, but maybe i need to actually look into it. seems like ppl like it a lot
- stinger / g70 - they look good on paper. have all the right specs and seem like the value choice. just hesitant because i've owned a genesis coupe before and the fit, finish and feel definitely was a step down. but i'll keep on the list to check out
-mazda 6 - forgot about this one. i feel like mazda has always made good handling, driver-focused cars. the current 6 just seems dated though. i'm curious to see the next gen 6 which supposedly is going rwd with a straight 6, but i prob can't wait around until then
-Q50 - also forgot about this one. will have to check out
-golf r, focus - prefer not to get a hatchback
-charger hellcat, cts-v - look like awesome cars, just not my style

As for the whole purpose of getting a "sporty" sedan vs just a people mover/minivan, I mean if i had 3 or 4 kids, then yes, minivan or 3-row suv, no question. But with 1 baby? just seems like there so many other options that can work. No i'm not planning on doing donuts with a newborn, but if I'm putting my money down for a car, I want something that I'm going to enjoy driving. I'm sure most people who buy Twins understand that feeling. I'm just looking for that with 4 doors.

Now i just need some time for test drives, without all the bs dealer talk.
my list (just for my own sake)
New:
bmw 3
audi 5/6
benz cla amg
lexus is350 vs is500
trd camry
Alfa Giulia
kia stinger
genesis g70
infiniti q50

Used:
bmw m3
lexus isf

the dream:

Honestly, this is a bit of a no brainer for me:

AMG C43 (prefer 63)
Giulia
CT5

I'd skip most other things on your list besides maybe your used options.
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:57 AM   #53
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So yes, I stand by Toyota vehicles. And until Toyota gives me a reason to make a different choice, I will continue to purchase their products exclusively.
I'm with you there. Sometimes their styling looks odd to Americans, but I've never owned more reliable vehicles. The longest I've owned anything is an FJ Cruiser used for off-road photo expeditions in harsh desert and mountain treks. In 15 years, its only needed routine maintenance. I finally had to replace the original Panasonic battery last year but that's it. Plus DIY maintenance is a breeze on Toyotas except for MR2's but I still have persistent searches going for another Spyder.

The least reliable car I've owned was an MB S Class coupe. I should've known better but the demo drive was great, the smiling owner gladly accepted my lowball, and then once home the car started disassembling itself in the driveway. Then I became the happy seller and learned from the buyer six months later that it self-immolated from a trans fluid leak on to the exhaust.

The domestics I've owned have been okay, easy to work on with a Crescent wrench and screwdriver, parts are cheap, but the overall experience was like eating gas station sushi.

Toyota resale is the gold standard too. I recently sold a RAV4 Prime bought last year and made out...really well, then replaced it with two more Toyotas (Camry and Venza) that impress with their improvements in fit, finish (no peel in the pearl), material quality and safety systems.

Yep, proud Toyota fanboi here, though a used C8 in on the radar in a couple years.
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:57 AM   #54
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Way too many people getting stingers and regretting it. The novelty of it wears off almost immediately after test drive.
Really? I hear they're great cars in GT trim, just the transmission is lacking, much like the Camrys transmission.
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Old 02-26-2021, 12:34 PM   #55
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Toyota doesn't have some magic sauce they bathe all their cars with that makes them more or less reliable than cars from other manufacturers.
Thatís not entirely true. There was an investigative piece a while back that explored the partnership between Toyota and GM that gave birth to the Corolla Prizm and the California facility it was built at (now Tesla). Toyotaís manufacturing culture was so contrary to GMís that even after extensive re-training (much of it in Japan) GM workers/management struggled to adapt to the idea that quality should come before productivity. The main takeaway from piece was that Toyota emphasized fixing manufacturing issues as they occurred to prevent future errors and improve overall production quality at the expenses of immediate productivity, whereas GM pushed off error correction until later in the process (mostly never) to maintain immediate productivity at the expense of consistent quality.

Iím largely brand agnostic as well (despite only 3 of 13 vehicles currently or previously owned not being Ford or GM), but I have seen no reason to doubt Toyotaís and Hondaís reputations as more reliable.
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Old 02-26-2021, 12:51 PM   #56
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Assessing reliability using anecdotal stories is usually misleading because of limited sample size. I also wouldn’t personally judge a car’s reliability based on other models in the lineup unless they share significant components.

Usually best to use model-specific data from a wide sample size.
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