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07-06-2020, 09:15 AM | #15 | |
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07-06-2020, 07:36 PM | #16 | |
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For the most part I agree but, I think the reasoning is different. Bigger and heavier is only a solution for those not wanting to spend more money Aluminum unibody vehicles and carbon mono-tubs can meet the both requirements but, the issue is $$$$ for development, tooling and production costs for the OEM. Initial costs should be high but, they should make it on the backend.
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07-06-2020, 08:19 PM | #17 | |
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The R&D costs would not be significant at all but the materials costs would be huge. Steel is dirt cheap and requires very little to form it. Aluminum is considerably more expensive and carbon is quite labour intensive to work. When looking at the volumes required to mass produce your standard consumer car the costs would simply be prohibitive. As cool as an aluminum and carbon tubed 86 may sound the $100,000 base price would not make it worth while. The cars that do make extensive use of these materials cost what they do beyond the badge no matter what people my say.
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07-06-2020, 09:56 PM | #18 | |
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I'm not so sure, given how many OEM's have already switched over without a huge (20k+) jump in price. Granted the larger the OEM the more or a return investment they get. But, yeah less profit = less likely. FWIW, the Alfa 4C manages Aluminum and CF tub for low 60's and that beauty is one step shy of bespoke! I'd imagine Subaru could do a twin for 40k. After all they already are doing aluminum replaceable panels and the tech lends well across the product range. Then again Toyota (lexus) spent all the money on the carbon fiber loom for the LFA and hasn't done shit with it since.
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07-06-2020, 10:34 PM | #19 | |
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BMW i3; 44k USD and a carbon tub, 7 years ago! It can be done, but they would probably have to spend next to nothing on the powertrain development. |
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07-07-2020, 12:55 PM | #20 |
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BMW lost a ton of money on every single one of those they sold.
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07-07-2020, 02:16 PM | #21 | |
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As all the reviews and their rankings among sportscars goes they are giving up way more than people want to sacrifice to meet that price point. It has a very small target consumer demographic in mind. Example: Is the Alfa Romeo 4C a Good Car? No, the 2020 Alfa Romeo 4C isn’t a good car. The 4C has a loud and cramped interior with few amenities. It’s uncomfortable for daily driving thanks to its heavy steering and firm sport-tuned suspension. Also, rear visibility and cargo space are in short supply. Sure, the 4C’s potent engine and sharp handling are commendable, but overall, this soft-top convertible gives up too much refinement in its pursuit of performance. Should I Buy the Alfa Romeo 4C? Skip the 4C. There are many alternatives in the luxury sports car segment that offer sizzling acceleration and poised handling but with a smoother ride and a much comfier interior. Some even cost a lot less than the 4C, like the Porsche Boxster and Toyota Supra. The North American version requires so much bracing to meet the standards that it is 220 pounds heavier so that pretty much cancels out the tub weight savings. With annual, world wide, sales numbers of around 2000 vehicles it also does not even come close to being a mass produced car. This is not an application that is going to be used for your average Corolla or even 86. At least not at any form of acceptable price point. LOL, all in all you could not have picked a better example to my point that it just isn't feasible at the price people would pay.
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07-07-2020, 03:19 PM | #22 | ||
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07-07-2020, 09:17 PM | #23 | |
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The 4C has gone up in price with each subsequent model year. The price jumped 11k in 2019 when they did away with the coupe model. The reviews aren't really the direction of my point. When the 4c launched in 2013 it was well loved. Favor died with age it seems. It feels a bit like a Exige/Elise as in you either love them or lament their flaws. My point was, they still could (and did) do it. As a smaller company with less resources, less production, less customers, and as a company with one hell of a bad rap in quality. I think Clarkson's review on the Grand Tour (S1,EP5) did it's duality best. There is a lot too hate but, a lot to love. Not unlike reception to our cars.
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