Data Logs! Post them here.

[JB86'd]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Yes, unless you know the in cylinder AFR the O2 readings are only an indicator.

Thanks. I suppose relying on 02 sensor/knock sensor readings is the best we can do for self-adjusting tunes without getting too crazy.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by JB86'd

Thanks. I suppose relying on 02 sensor/knock sensor readings is the best we can do for self-adjusting tunes without getting too crazy.

Having an idea of what the cams are doing WRT overlap in a pull will prove out any "lean" spots. You want a smooth MAF curve, if it's lumpy then it's likely that you're compensating for added O2 due to overlap and not a leaner mixture.

[JB86'd]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Having an idea of what the cams are doing WRT overlap in a pull will prove out any "lean" spots. You want a smooth MAF curve, if it's lumpy then it's likely that you're compensating for added O2 due to overlap and not a leaner mixture.

Okay that makes perfect sense. I just have no idea how to analyze cam overlap

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by JB86'd

Okay that makes perfect sense. I just have no idea how to analyze cam overlap

If you log the AVCS you could add a column with the formula:

=-9+(Ex Retard)-(14-(In Advance))

Don't read into the values too much but you'll get an idea of what's happening.

[JB86'd]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

If you log the AVCS you could add a column with the formula:

=-9+(Ex Retard)-(14-(In Advance))

Don't read into the values too much but you'll get an idea of what's happening.

Where do I add that code? Sorry, new guy here

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by JB86'd

Where do I add that code? Sorry, new guy here

Into the datalog. Add a new header "AVCS Overlap" and then copy that formula down the column. Obviously replace the Intake and Exhaust references with the cells for the relevant cams.

[cawith]

Originally Posted by steve99

yes see how far it out at each maf point and adjust accordingly

then maynpbe look at load limits

once you have thge fuelking correct then tackle the knock

So this yesterday I finally hit 100km after flashing the new MAF scale. One thing I noticed while driving carefully was that it seems to knock even more on tip in than it did before, but wouldn't log anything before passing the 100-mark.

Now this morning I had a chance to make on 3rd gear run which showed no knock, but before and after that, driving through the city just accelerating a bit but still in closed loop, it would show FLKC and FBKC often up to -1.3 .
After the 3rd gear run IAM dropped to 0.88.

Later when IAM was at 0.91 I got to do a 2nd gear run, which also seemed to knock quite much.

Looks like the car is now running mostly lean. Annoying if the VGI tool has over-corrected the MAF scale. Do you think that is the case?
Or might it be due to load limits?

Am I correct in assuming that logging and correcting MAF scale while IAM is below 1 is not very good..?


3rd gear run

2nd gear run

[steve99]

Originally Posted by cawith

So this yesterday I finally hit 100km after flashing the new MAF scale. One thing I noticed while driving carefully was that it seems to knock even more on tip in than it did before, but wouldn't log anything before passing the 100-mark.

Now this morning I had a chance to make on 3rd gear run which showed no knock, but before and after that, driving through the city just accelerating a bit but still in closed loop, it would show FLKC and FBKC often up to -1.3 .
After the 3rd gear run IAM dropped to 0.88.

Later when IAM was at 0.91 I got to do a 2nd gear run, which also seemed to knock quite much.

Looks like the car is now running mostly lean. Annoying if the VGI tool has over-corrected the MAF scale. Do you think that is the case?
Or might it be due to load limits?

Am I correct in assuming that logging and correcting MAF scale while IAM is below 1 is not very good..?


3rd gear run

2nd gear run

If you only altered the OL maf scaling it should not effect the you when driving "carefully" as your likely in closed loop.


looks like the knock is in 2000-3000 area


Did you fuel up at different station, might just be bad fuel ?

[cawith]

Originally Posted by steve99

If you only altered the OL maf scaling it should not effect the you when driving "carefully" as your likely in closed loop.


looks like the knock is in 2000-3000 area


Did you fuel up at different station, might just be bad fuel ?

The MAF scale was only changed from 2.77V and up, as you can see in the screenshot.
I also had this knock around 2000-3000rpm before I changed the MAF, but now it just knocks a lot more and does it also when cruising steadily at 3000-3500rpm and then accelerating with 15-20% throttle still in CL.

May be bad fuel that has made the knock even worse as I filled up yesterday even though it was Shell V-Power as usual, but just another station that I normally don't use.

But if it was bad fuel, that couldn't be a reason for the car now running lean especially around 3500-4000rpm, could it?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by cawith

The MAF scale was only changed from 2.77V and up, as you can see in the screenshot.
I also had this knock around 2000-3000rpm before I changed the MAF, but now it just knocks a lot more and does it also when cruising steadily at 3000-3500rpm and then accelerating with 15-20% throttle still in CL.

May be bad fuel that has made the knock even worse as I filled up yesterday even though it was Shell V-Power as usual, but just another station that I normally don't use.

But if it was bad fuel, that couldn't be a reason for the car now running lean especially around 3500-4000rpm, could it?

I dont know what load limits you set but it might be that assuming maf scaling is correct

if the load limits are too low in that area it can cause lean area

[Kodename47]

What CL > OL timers are you running? General consensus is that reducing or making them 0 usually makes a difference with issues like this. Seems that if it holds the CL fueling too much you can get this issue.

[cawith]

Originally Posted by steve99

I dont know what load limits you set but it might be that assuming maf scaling is correct

if the load limits are too low in that area it can cause lean area

Basically just running the load limits from Wayno's v97 with just the 3800rpm value changed to 1.15 . You can see it in the attached screenshot.

Originally Posted by Kodename47

What CL > OL timers are you running? General consensus is that reducing or making them 0 usually makes a difference with issues like this. Seems that if it holds the CL fueling too much you can get this issue.

Are you talking about the CL/OL Transition tables shown in the second screenshot? I haven't touched those, so they should be the same as Wayno's v97 98oct AU rich.
I haven't read about anyone modding those. Is there a thread about this? But then again, it knocks when going on the accelerator more than average but not so much that it switches to OL.

I'll see if I can log some city driving, where the knock will be visible.

Generally though it looks like actual engine load is often higher than the limits in the tables - especially when going on the throttle, which gives a load spike.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by cawith

Basically just running the load limits from Wayno's v97 with just the 3800rpm value changed to 1.15 . You can see it in the attached screenshot.



Are you talking about the CL/OL Transition tables shown in the second screenshot? I haven't touched those, so they should be the same as Wayno's v97 98oct AU rich.
I haven't read about anyone modding those. Is there a thread about this? But then again, it knocks when going on the accelerator more than average but not so much that it switches to OL.

I'll see if I can log some city driving, where the knock will be visible.

Generally though it looks like actual engine load is often higher than the limits in the tables - especially when going on the throttle, which gives a load spike.

Wayno used the load limits to stop it going way rich at full throttle at lower rpm

you might find that those load limits make your car run lean.

When you log load im pretty sure its logging absolute load.

but if it goes over the load limit you set it forces the ecu to look up the fueling and timing ect for the load specified in the load limit not the absolute load at that rpm

If you look at the OL fueling table and timing limiting the load will stop the ecu using very rich fueling and retarted timing at low rpm when you get on the throttle in higher gear. this stops it bogging down.

If you get to agressive with the load limits at lower rpm the ecu will look up the load limited values causing it to run leaner with more timing than it would if the load limit did not exist.

Hence you may need to run a more linear load limit table in your case.

[cawith]

Originally Posted by steve99

Wayno used the load limits to stop it going way rich at full throttle at lower rpm

you might find that those load limits make your car run lean.

When you log load im pretty sure its logging absolute load.

but if it goes over the load limit you set it forces the ecu to look up the fueling and timing ect for the load specified in the load limit not the absolute load at that rpm

If you look at the OL fueling table and timing limiting the load will stop the ecu using very rich fueling and retarted timing at low rpm when you get on the throttle in higher gear. this stops it bogging down.

If you get to agressive with the load limits at lower rpm the ecu will look up the load limited values causing it to run leaner with more timing than it would if the load limit did not exist.

Hence you may need to run a more linear load limit table in your case.

Is there anything else than absolute load?

But why are there any load limits at all? Isn't it best, if the load limits aren't reached at any point?

With "more linear" do you mean that the load limit should reach 1.3/1.4 at lower rpm and then remain there for the top range?

I tried to mod the load limits again so that WOT from 2500rpm shouldn't exceed the limit anymore. Do you think the table looks acceptable?


I made another 5th gear pull earlier which has a lot of knock and IAM lowered to 0.98, and a short 4th gear pull from 4000rpm. Car ran lean all the way as you can see. Hope the revised load limits help.

4th gear pull

5th gear pull