'22+ GR86 vs GR Supra 3.0 Manual vs 2JZGTE swapped SC300 Manual

[KahnBB6]

Hello!

I'm a long time lurker and reader and haven't posted much on this forum but since I'm at the point where I will start considering a new daily vehicle and since what I am coming from is so unique I wanted to ask for feedback from GR86 owners as to what they thought.

I am trying to determine if leaning more into a '22+ GR86 Manual or '23+ GR Supra 3.0 Manual will be a better fit for me.

I am also very happy that Toyota released the GR Corolla. It's fantastic! But.... as excellent a performance car as it is, one thing it is not is a beautiful two door coupe. And I really love two door coupes with a lower seating position and can manage that in a new daily car so I'm really just focused between the GR86 6MT and Supra 6MT... despite their price gap.

The Supra 3.0 Manual I consider totally unnecessary to modify. The package as is, for me, is complete. It has plenty of power from a turbo I6, gets 27mpg or so highway, has four piston front brake calipers, a standard LSD and handles very well. It's only downside is that it's a 2-seater only.

The GR86 Manual is also IMO near perfect. Great handling, improved power and torque, 0-60 slightly below 6 seconds (correct?) and it has a standard Torsen T-2 LSD. It also is a more usable 2+2 with a decent size trunk. I drove a Scion FR-S when those first came out and remarked at how the design was like my old 5th gen Prelude but with the FWD issue being totally corrected... and that older Honda was an *excellent* and very fun to drive daily car in its own right. The FR-S/GT86/BRZ cars were, to me, the evolution of it plus correcting the drive layout.

The GR86 also retains a true manual handbrake which I really love in this era. A manual car should retain a mechanical manual handbrake.

But if I were to buy a GR86 I'd immediately want to correct the problem of it not having the 1st gen BR Performance Pack Brembo brake option by acquiring all the factory parts and installing that system. For me I will not budge on that... and of course I fear this would be a warranty voiding modification no matter how cleanly I were to do it but I am not interested in going back to sliding front brake calipers.

.....

Now I included the SC300 in my thread title because one of those has been my current daily driver. And I am keeping it but it is coming time to soon get a new primary car.

Where I am torn between a GR86 and GR Supra (both manual, both having 4-piston front brakes) is that neither directly replaces my SC300 as I have built it:

It is a big 3600lb (as is right now) 2+2 90's long wheelbase luxury coupe, inline six RWD and mine is a factory 5-speed manual example.

I bought it stock and drove it with the standard naturally aspirated 225hp for ten years.

Then after all that time it needed an engine rebuild and decided to I give it the following in a VERY meticulous "OEM+" treatment at great effort over several stages up to the present:

-2JZ-GTE Non-VVT-i engine swap. Standard boost at 320hp/315ft-lbs in sequential turbo mode (which has been fine with me). Everything was reconditioned from a bare block on up and hand built to all OEM Toyota specs (plus ARP studs and bolts) with as many new parts, electrical, hoses, bolts and other components as was possible. It has the factory US-spec CT12B twin turbo system, fully rebuilt and running all new VSVs, stock 6-speed ECU, OEM Toyota pistons, full EGR system with OEM cats, OEM Supra TT fuel system, as close to OEM Supra TT electrical wiring as could be done, etc. etc. It took time to build that engine as a labor of love.

The rest of the car has been fitted with the following:

-R154 5-speed transmission, rebuilt and upgraded with stronger internals
-SupraSport V3 short shifter (similar to older C's short shifters for the Soarer)
-Supra MKIV TT Auto rear differential w/T-1 Torsen LSD and 3.769:1 final drive
-Supra MKIV Front bucket seats, reupholstered to match the SC tan interior
-MR2 Spyder three spoke sport steering wheel swapped w/Lexus IS300 airbag
-Supra MKIV TT front and rear swaybars & MKIV rear subframe mounts
-Supra application Bilstein AK1242 & AK1243 shocks in "Gixxer-Drew" config w/ Hypercoil linear rate springs
-Supra MKIV TT OEM wheels 17x8 FR & 17x9.5 RR on 245's and 275's
-Entire Supra MKIV TT cooling system (primary and auxiliary) installed like "stock"
-HID 4200K Philips low beam illumination upgrade
-OS Giken twin disc STR2CD clutch kit (very easy to daily once broken in)
-1997-2000 SC300/400 front bumper swap w/foglights.

That gives an idea of how different the car is from a standard SC300 or even a very powerful turbocharged example. Mine was built carefully to always maintain an "OEM+" style appearance.

It is still fundamentally a big GT Lexus coupe with the utility of a very decent size back seat and decent enough but not huge trunk compartment. I have been able to haul a LOT of cargo in this car over the years, use it for work with gear bags in the back or trunk, etc.

There is just something very very useful about a 2+2 coupe.

I did the same thing with my smaller Honda Prelude which of course was also a 2+2 having a decent enough back seat for occasional passenger use and a decent size trunk space.

Power-wise my SC is a quick car. I didn't set it up to be fast by today's standards but it has plenty of torque and power delivered in a very satisfying 1990's turbo fashion... but it can still be driven like the luxury GT coupe that it is. It still feels like a Lexus but it's a very factory everyday muscle car style Lexus.

Braking is not a true track duty setup but the Supra TT brake calipers and rotors are more than anyone would really need on the street in a 3600lb RWD muscle car.

Handling wise it is FAR better than it was stock and very capable (the suspension work, staggered wheels and tires and Torsen LSD all help) but it is still a long wheelbase 90's era coupe. The GR86 and GR Supra both have a major handling advantage.

Suffice it to say that it's just a certain kind of car. It was never optioned the way I have mine set up from the factory but other than what it is as a design of its era I have no complaints about it other than that it's seriously getting into classic car status now... and has pretty bad gas mileage by today's standards (which you have to accept and expect). 15mpg city and 23mpg highway.

Infiniti doesn't really make anything like this any longer... since they killed off their manual transmission option in their coupe.

There are the Ford Mustang and Camaro and Challenger which are all kind of this class of car in a non-luxury sense and which all still offer manual transmissions... but I am not interested in any of those.

I really love the options that Toyota has presented us with through their GR division.

....

And so there are my thoughts and questions to you all.

I'm not moving on this immediately but I have narrowed down to the GR86 Manual (with a swap of the BRZ Performance Pack Brembo brake parts-- hopefully not warranty voiding) and the GR Supra 3.0 Manual (which I personally see no need to modify).

Both cars embody aspects of what I will be moving on from in my modified SC300 but neither one has all the eggs in one basket.

I will use whichever car I choose as a daily driver and the cargo room and all. I rarely ever have more than one passenger in my SC300 but I have occasionally and appreciate it as extra cargo room at least but where I am at in life right now I can also manage with no back seat area.

Does anyone else have a gauge on where I am coming from as I look at these two new car options versus a much older style of coupe that... really isn't offered any longer?

The SC300 as modified, and though quite old, is a fantastic car. It can be driven in a docile manner or easily shove out of its own way and that of others when the boost comes on. The 5-speed transmission is an older design from the 1980's but it's in great shape and feels great as an example of its era. But at about 30 years old I will soon need to move this car into secondary classic car status.

The GR86 Manual and GR Supra 3.0 Manual are both phenomenal cars. I know much about both already. I know that I really CAN'T go wrong with either one.

This decision is not easy. My SC300 is the first turbo car I've owned and I love the experience. It is nowhere near as fast as a GR Supra but it's very fun. I would never need to modify a GR Supra for more power to satisfy me. The GR86 is a quick car with the new 2.4L engine with excellent feel and I am not interested in modifying its engine either for long term reliability.

Having driven a 1st Gen FR-S Auto and also a 1st gen GT86 6-speed manual I loved both of those cars. They could have used more power, yes, but they are so light at 2800lbs or so compared to my 3600lb SC300 (which needed the turbo power to overcome its own weight especially at high altitude in mountain/canyon drives).

The driving experience is #1 to me. Hence my preference for front engine RWD and for a manual transmission.

That is also a reason why even though I built a 2JZ-GTE engine for my SC I was perfectly fine with its stock power output.... as compared to the original 225hp/210ft-lb NA engine which was torquey but also only made its merely adequate full power up into 6000rpm.... in a vehicle that at the time had a stock weight of 3500lbs. With ALL the other modifications to it but while still using the factory stock naturally aspirated driveline I kind of thought of it as a much bigger long wheelbase GT86.... which obviously didn't have the GT86's inherent advantages as a handling and balance machine.

...

I realize that this is a very, very, very specific comparison and set of preferences.

Between the GR86 6MT (and BRZ Brembo brakes being added immediately) and a bone stock Supra 3.0 Manual... will I feel too compromised by either car?

I would humbly appreciate any of your thoughts and insights!

Thank you!

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by KahnBB6

I would humbly appreciate any of your thoughts and insights!

Thank you!

Tough one here. Much of this will of course purely depend on you and your wants/needs.

A few key points I picked out from reading:
1. You seemed to like the luxury feel of your Lexus chassis with its big power. This would lean you towards the Supra in both aspects. The 86 will not be as quick as the Supra or your Lexus and you might miss that. The Supra has more luxury to it and drives more like it too. This is something you'll need to compare for yourself to get a better idea of your preference.

2. You like the extra room to haul stuff. But you have to ask yourself what you need your two rear seats for. You won't be fitting people in there much if at all. Mostly kids, if there is even a need for you in that regard. The Supra has much larger trunk capacity due to the different design and also having no rear seats. So this could lean you either way.

3. Sounds like you love OEM or OEM+. Supra would require you to change nothing, as you say. 86 would put you at work. Possibly for more than just big brake upgrades over time. The quality of the Supra is just better overall, hence the price tag. But you do seem to like modifying. So do you still have an itch for it? Would the 86 satisfy you more in that regard as you can throw some upgrades on it to make it more preferable to you?

In general, the Supra will be the better car in most ways compared to the 86, hence the price tag as mentioned earlier. Is price something that you even care about in the slightest? The 86 will be cheaper to buy, have cheaper parts, and be cheaper to maintain for the most part.

Lastly, as everyone always says, there's nothing better than going to test drive each vehicle. Might be quite a bit harder to do these days. But even if you have a chance to test an automatic with either, it may be worth it to compare all the other aspects of the cars aside from the transmission.

[___LUNK]

How do you feel about Lexus LCs?

[vindiesel]

Buy 2 gr86s… keep one Jay Leno style stuffed away and run the hell out of the other one.

You put all that money in the sc there is no reason to get rid of it; you will lose your sentimental value, time and money. It comes down to budget.

Go drive them both… then come back. Theoretical is pointless there is enough reviews out there to watch for days. If people want advice then there should be a precursor to just drive one if applicable and that solves any over-analyzation of inner monologue cyclical rhetoric.

So the real question is 30,000$ worth another 1.5ish 0-60 mph and a bmw power train?

Hell you could buy a gr86 for daily, keep sc and buy a 5-10k car to rack the miles on.

The whole reason I bought my brz was (this ideology is most people’s) because I couldn’t justify affording a 50k+ new sports car or a 30-40k used 20-50k miles 5-10 years old sports car nor have 20-30k to put in a down payment or want a 500+ a month car payment on a depreciating investment nor do I want a car that I pedestal to the point I don’t want to drive it and put 5,000 miles a year on. The brz ticked the boxes for me.

I speed read through your response I’m sure I made assumptions.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by vindiesel

The whole reason I bought my brz was (this ideology is most people’s) because I couldn’t justify affording a 50k+ new sports car or a 30-40k used 20-50k miles 5-10 years old sports car nor have 20-30k to put in a down payment or want a 500+ a month car payment on a depreciating investment nor do I want a car that I pedestal to the point I don’t want to drive it and put 5,000 miles a year on. The brz ticked the boxes for me.

Same here. I couldn't justify an SS 1LE, Mach 1, or Supra. Especially because I work from home and drive very little.

I got my car Sept 3rd, I still haven't cracked 1100 miles on it.

[Rustyoid]

Have you thought about how you plan to navigate the market, how you're actually going to get one?

[justinco]

If budget is not an issue, I see no reason to go with the GR86. The more powerful Supra, with better build/comfort, will make a better and more fun daily driver (IMO), since that seems to be your primary use case.

The GR86 is awesome DD in its own right, but it is ~$30k cheaper for a reason (several actually).

If you were going to do a lot of tracking/autox/etc, and budget was a concern, I would recommend the GR86. Consumables and parts are significantly cheaper (as is the car obv) compared to the Supra.

Personally, I'm like @vindiesel and like "cheap" sporty cars with low operating costs, since I track and autox mine very often. That said, I'm still considering a Supra at some point

[jflogerzi]

I agree with others. Supra manual can replace both if no budget is a concern. GR86 can feel premium in the higher trim. With a tune and e85 it should prove to plenty quick. If it was my money I would go GR86 and a few tasteful mods. Supra is set out of box but has tons of potential

[DriveDriftDogfight86]

Supra 3.0L Manual. Have fun!

[Irace86.2.0]

Drive both and see. That is honestly the best and only thing you need to do to know. Toro both cars for a day. It'll save you thousands in regret.

If money isn't an issue then get the Supra. It is better in every way for a daily except maybe cargo space and small child seats. The 86 is lighter and is probably the better driver's car, but not a better daily. Get the Supra with the adaptive suspension, far more power, more/easier power potential, quieter, better build quality, more features, etc that will all be much more appreciated for a daily and will be far more similar to your SC300 (I had two MKIVs including a 2JZGTE swapped NA). Personally, the size and weight of the 86 is more me. A GR86 with a Harrop SC, E85, a header n catback is a great thing. You probably don't need the brakes for the canyons--just some pads.

[Dake]

Reading your post, I feel like you might miss the practicality of the 2+2+cargo layout of the 86.

Others have already mentioned the various cost/performance comparisons. You can do a lot of work on the 86 and still be into it for less than the Supra, and the savings can go towards consumables. Most reviews also state that the brakes are still more than acceptable for most all situations. I know I've done track days - multiple twenty minute sessions - in my first year FRS with nothing more than a fluid and pad change, and the new car is supposed to be way better than that stock (so you probably shouldn't sweat the brakes right out of the gate).

You've been driving the SC, which was the "gentleman's Supra" for a while now. I suppose what you really need to decide is whether on those rare occasions that you need the space, are you ok with using the SC there also? Aside from my frustration with having farmed it out to BMW, my second biggest annoyance was that they made the Supra a two-seater. I've been dailying my FRS for over ten years now and it takes whatever I throw at. I've done multiple, 10+ hour a day road trips. I've put the seat down to load lumber after a trip to the hardware store. I've actually loaded four track wheels, my jack, tools and overnight bag for track days. It just does it all and I have fun driving it every day.

[BrandonDIS]

Originally Posted by ___LUNK

How do you feel about Lexus LCs?

The appearance of Lexus cars is very beautiful. I especially like the ES300：竖起大拇指：

[BrandonDIS]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Same here. I couldn't justify an SS 1LE, Mach 1, or Supra. Especially because I work from home and drive very little.

I got my car Sept 3rd, I still haven't cracked 1100 miles on it.

Your idea is very second, and I agree with you very much：肚皮卷：

[BrandonDIS]

The handling of the car should be very good. How many men's dreams are this