07-10-2020, 06:17 PM | #379 |
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@timurrrr are you trying to get the damper to damp less relative to the spring, or the spring to work harder against the damper?
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07-10-2020, 08:11 PM | #380 | |||||
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I initially set up my coilovers following exactly the "use as little preload as possible, and then set the ride height using the damper body length" advice (post). With those settings I was getting harshness due to HBS (whether you call it engaging or bottoming out) all the time on the highways (post). After I did more homework and figured out what functionality of the suspensions those adjustments actually affect, I went ahead and measure everything, and compared with the values recommended in the supplied installation manual. I realized that due to the "as little preload is possible" advice I had ~7 mm less compression travel than recommended (post) at each corner. I then reduced the damper lengths to match the settings recommended in the manual, and adjusted the preload collar by the same amount to keep my ride height unchaned. The harshness became much less of an issue, but still an issue. On moderately crappy sections of highways it's not an issue anymore. I didn't experience any issues with droop travel, so don't have any reasons to believe it was compromised too much. Having recently discussed preload with you (post), I realized that you're misunderstanding what preload actually does at ride height, and that explains why your advice is the opposite of what I believe in, and confirmed with my own testing. I'm surprised you keep giving me the same advice, given that I explained why I think it's incorrect. Quote:
Having experienced the harshness in my car, I in fact already raised it a few mm per corner higher than recommended settings, and it indeed helped. Quote:
It's not "even if identical" frequency in the front and in the rear; it's strictly higher frequency in the rear. Typically not much higher, only ~.2 Hz higher. The idea is that the suspension "reacts" to the bump slower in the front by roughly the same amount of time it takes for the rear tires to hit the same bump. This allows the "reaction" of the rear of the car to catch up with the "reaction" of the front of the car. Also, it doesn't have to be a 100% flat ride difference in Hz before front and rear; the point is that slightly higher in the rear will make the car settle quicker over bumps than some random relation between front and rear. See also http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets5.html, section called "Spring selection". He doesn't specifically call this "flat ride", but he precisely explains why he thinks this is the right thing to do. Also, elsewhere in the book he specifically points out how his car, set up this way, was much more controllable than competitors' in one of the bumpy corners during one of the events. Quote:
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Finding incorrect assumptions you make in your answers helps me find new areas for research. Thanks to #covid19, I verify my theories not only in real life, but also in simulators. The things I learn in simulators are the most eye-opening, as you can make changes quickly and immediately tell the difference; and so far the results are verifiable at real events. That sounds exactly like "we picked the rear spring rate targeting specific balance(s) specifically with stock sway bars stiffnesses". |
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07-10-2020, 08:11 PM | #381 | |
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07-10-2020, 08:18 PM | #382 |
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07-10-2020, 08:18 PM | #383 | |
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Page 6 in the manual that I received specifically say to adjust the ride height by turning the spring seat (i.e. preload?). |
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07-10-2020, 08:26 PM | #384 |
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I want suspension that is reasonably comfortable on the street and good enough for track days. I believe that's the exact value marketed for CSG FLAs.
What I see on the street is harshness in the front and rocking front-to-back. As for harshness in the front, I'm afraid we can't do much about due to metal-to-metal top mount? Other than some isolators, I guess. As for rocking, having learned what "flat ride" is from 3 independent sources, I realized the problem is the spring rates. Knowing what I know now, I would have ordered FLAs with different spring rates (6k/8k or 6k/9k) when I was making the order. And would be happy to pay extra for a CSG-recommended front sway bar for balance. Maybe rear too, if needed. |
07-10-2020, 09:08 PM | #385 | |
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I look forward to your findings! |
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The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post: | timurrrr (07-10-2020) |
07-10-2020, 09:25 PM | #386 | ||
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Let's see if I decide to invest into that at this stage, given that I'll need re-alignment, probably corner balancing, etc. Any pointers to which specific 8k/9k spring I should order? Which sway bars have the right range of adjustments? Quote:
Can both bump and rebound be revalved if/when I eventually send my FLAs for a rebuild due to wear? How expensive would that be? |
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07-10-2020, 09:47 PM | #387 | |
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They can be revalved; standard servicing cost + parts; this can vary due to what may or may not need replacing based on your wear and tear. Remember, the CSG FLA is ultimately an entry level damper that is proven to ride smoother than stock, while being capable at the track. It's not perfect, and it can't do everything, but it's a great compromise, and unbeatable at its price point. |
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07-10-2020, 09:57 PM | #388 | |
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Thanks!
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That's why I got them in the first place, along with positive reviews on this thread. |
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07-10-2020, 10:01 PM | #389 |
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07-10-2020, 10:17 PM | #390 |
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07-11-2020, 12:08 AM | #391 | |
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Why would the ride height affect harshness with these type of shocks where ride height/damper length and preload are independent of each other and stroke length? |
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07-11-2020, 12:25 AM | #392 | |
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30k mixed miles, or 50 track hours is a good guideline. Because the degradation is gradual over time, you won't notice, but even if you go from that to a freshly serviced set with zero changes, you'll absolutely notice the difference from used to new. It's no different from going from old tires to new; you don't notice the slow degradation, but the new tire will always feel way better than the old tire. |
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The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post: | timurrrr (07-11-2020) |
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