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Old 07-22-2021, 10:45 AM   #85
Capt Spaulding
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Yep. Danny Ongas. People were blown away that a drag racer could actually turn corners
Yep. And he could turn right hand corners as well.
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Old 07-22-2021, 11:13 AM   #86
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So, without electronic intervention, what is more stable cornering, a 911 or a Cayman?

OK so consumers have kept the 911 going for years and years, but is it for a desire to maintain the prestige of the lineage or is it a better package than a similarly equipped Cayman?
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Old 07-22-2021, 11:16 AM   #87
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Answer is Cayman
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Old 07-22-2021, 12:40 PM   #88
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Technically, stability and performance are inversely related. The Cayman is more stable but, in the right hands, the 911 has greater potential.
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Old 07-22-2021, 12:57 PM   #89
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Technically, stability and performance are inversely related. The Cayman is more stable but, in the right hands, the 911 has greater potential.
Pretty much this, plus there are so many variants of each that you'd need to determine which 2 you wanted to compare.
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Old 07-22-2021, 02:28 PM   #90
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Technically, stability and performance are inversely related. The Cayman is more stable
Agreed. Rather than performance, I might have said maneuverability, similar to advanced aircraft. But that's just picking nits and maybe the wrong nits. With the right nannies, humans can fly/drive almost anything. Take those away and the odds are less favorable.

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but, in the right hands, the 911 has greater potential.
Less sure of this. If so, I'd expect other "no holds barred" performance cars to have gone the same route. So it may depend on what we mean by potential.

Modern 911s are making HP numbers closeish to the old 935 racecars. From the perspective of one who has drooled by never driven, I suspect if you put most human drivers in a 930 with today's top end 911 power numbers, you'd see the drivers pretty quickly separated from the posers.

Without the nannies and awd I think these babies could still pretty darn diabolical. So, if a computer is keeping me from killing myself, how much of the driving/flying am I doing? Does that matter?
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Old 07-22-2021, 02:47 PM   #91
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WRX is not renowned for excellent engine placement eitherÖ
Modern Porsches 911 race cars up til at least the last set of IMSA cars move the engine to a mid placement... cause even Porsche doesn't want a race car with the worst placement ever lol

Yeah a 911 drives out of a corner.. is just can't drive into one very well and older 911s will try to murder you. They've done great at engineering around the dumb placement but only keep it because porsche purists demand dumb shit like that.

As for the back seat comment... lol not sure my 11lb dog would be comfortable in a 911 backseat.. dumbest rear seat ever put in a car.
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Old 07-22-2021, 03:17 PM   #92
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Race car design today is about aerodynamics and rules more than anything like engine placement. A rear engine gets in the way of a huge diffuser.
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:11 PM   #93
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Direct control is more eventful. Isn't that what we're chasing?
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Old 07-22-2021, 11:09 PM   #94
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Direct control is more eventful. Isn't that what we're chasing?
"Eventful."
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Old 07-22-2021, 11:51 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Dave-ROR View Post
Modern Porsches 911 race cars up til at least the last set of IMSA cars move the engine to a mid placement... cause even Porsche doesn't want a race car with the worst placement ever lol

Yeah a 911 drives out of a corner.. is just can't drive into one very well and older 911s will try to murder you. They've done great at engineering around the dumb placement but only keep it because porsche purists demand dumb shit like that.

As for the back seat comment... lol not sure my 11lb dog would be comfortable in a 911 backseat.. dumbest rear seat ever put in a car.
the race cars needed rear diffusers and that necessitated a slightly more forward engine placement. It wasnt about something that was previously poorly placed.

A good amount of people that drive these cars just don’t understand that you just don’t drive em the same as other cars. They try to drive em the same and get into trouble and/or come away with a bad taste.

Last edited by TommyW; 07-23-2021 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:11 AM   #96
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Quote:
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the race cars needed rear diffusers and that necessitated a slightly more forward engine placement.

Itís not slightly more forward on the RSR. They flipped the engine and tranny so itís literally the same layout as a cayman now. Itís a mid engined car now, full stop:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rank-walliser/
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:24 AM   #97
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Itís not slightly more forward on the RSR. They flipped the engine and tranny so itís literally the same layout as a cayman now. Itís a mid engined car now, full stop:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rank-walliser/
interesting.
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:52 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Dave-ROR View Post
Modern Porsches 911 race cars up til at least the last set of IMSA cars move the engine to a mid placement... cause even Porsche doesn't want a race car with the worst placement ever lol

Yeah a 911 drives out of a corner.. is just can't drive into one very well and older 911s will try to murder you. They've done great at engineering around the dumb placement but only keep it because porsche purists demand dumb shit like that.

As for the back seat comment... lol not sure my 11lb dog would be comfortable in a 911 backseat.. dumbest rear seat ever put in a car.
The Porsche purists probably want some practicality of a 2+2. If Porsche ditched the rear seats and went mid engine with the 911 then the Cayman would need to be that much more of a budget version to differentiate the two models. The technology in the 911 is far superior, but still, they would need to cheapen the Cayman and keep the different bodies or something. It makes more sense to make the 911 the larger, heavier, roomier and more premium version than say making the Cayman the bigger, but slower 2+2 and making the 911 the lighter, faster MR version. I feel like in that scenario, the price of the Cayman would go up and approach on the 911ís MSRP. The 911 was suppose to be the cheaper, more usable, practical and reliable supercar. Making a two seater just doesnít fit, but I would like to see it too.

That is a 997 with a 93Ē wheelbase and with more leg room than a 86. Just saying. The rear engine keeps the practicality, while keeping the dimensions, and weight down, and while maximizing performance.

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