Lexus LF-CC / RC350 & RC-F

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by Monogram

Cayman and Z06. http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow...of_willow.html

The Z06 beat it by 4 seconds? And it was a Cayman S, not a GTS and damn sure not a GT4

Again track times =/= sports car

A Miata is more of a sports car than your RC-F by definition, and it would never beat an RC-F in anything but autocross

Originally Posted by Monogram

Where did I mention 1/4 mile times?

I never said you did.....?

I simply said that most people label anything with 4 wheels thats not a truck a sports car if it can break into the 12's in the 1/4.... I on the other hand don't

[Joakim3]

Honestly this debate is going in circles and I think we should just accept that we are going agree to disagree, and acknowledge the fact we at least both love cars, which is the bigger pictures

[Monogram]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

Honestly this debate is going in circles and I think we should just accept that we are going agree to disagree, and acknowledge the fact we at least both love cars, which is the bigger pictures

I disagree.

[Monogram]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

The Z06 beat it by 4 seconds? And it was a Cayman S, not a GTS and damn sure not a GT4

Again track times =/= sports car

A Miata is more of a sports car than your RC-F by definition, and it would never beat an RC-F in anything but autocross



I never said you did.....?

I simply said that most people label anything with 4 wheels thats not a truck a sports car if it can break into the 12's in the 1/4.... I on the other hand don't

Z06 also lost to it. Cayman S is only 15hp less than GTS. These facts do not support your previous statement. You brought up the Cayman and Z06. On a track, all three are similar in lap times. Broaden your perspective.

[Monogram]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

The Z06 beat it by 4 seconds? And it was a Cayman S, not a GTS and damn sure not a GT4

Again track times =/= sports car

A Miata is more of a sports car than your RC-F by definition, and it would never beat an RC-F in anything but autocross



I never said you did.....?

I simply said that most people label anything with 4 wheels thats not a truck a sports car if it can break into the 12's in the 1/4.... I on the other hand don't

I looked at a loaded Cayman GTS, and it topped $100,000.00. I had never looked at a loaded Z06 price, and it is well into the $90,000.00 range. A fully loaded RC F carbon is below $80,000.00. Less money, more luxury, more reliable, more unique, similar lap times on a track, and all you want to do is quibble over the symantecs of what constitutes a sports car.

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by Monogram

Z06 also lost to it. Cayman S is only 15hp less than GTS. These facts do not support your previous statement. You brought up the Cayman and Z06. On a track, all three are similar in lap times. Broaden your perspective.

.....You'd be amazed what 15 extra hp, active suspension and drive change setting can do for lap times.

It ran the lap faster though, it's irrelevant if it ran slower than RC-F on an particular attempt? Second... you posted one track lap comparison that wasn't even timed under equal conditions. That doesn't help your argument in any shape or form. Oh, and 4 seconds is not close.. not by a long shot.

My perspective is fine.... It's a fast GT car, that can keep pace with most sports cars. Whats the confusion about?

Originally Posted by Monogram

I looked at a loaded Cayman GTS, and it topped $100,000.00. I had never looked at a loaded Z06 price, and it is well into the $90,000.00 range.

You can thank Porsche badging for the price premium, and price inflation. Second I don't know anyone who specs their Caymen out to the max as it starts encroaching into 911 territory. A GTS starts at 74k so it's in RC-F price range even thought the cars don't compete what so ever

Yeah a brand new 2015 Z06 is 90k+.... the one they tested you can get for 40k now

Originally Posted by Monogram

A fully loaded RC F carbon is below $80,000.00. Less money, more luxury, more reliable, more unique, similar lap times on a track, and all you want to do is quibble over the symantecs of what constitutes a sports car.

Buy a used 997 911 Turbo. You can get it with 3 pedals, you get a sun-roof, it's probably just as reliable, saves you money on gas, you get 4WD, you have just as much gismos and toys, even more exclusive, can post better lap times.... and save yourself 10k

See what I did there?

The RC-F isn't the best thing since sliced bread, or the re-invention of the wheel.

Again I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about how good or not good your car is compared to cars that aren't even in the same market as it

[ajaxthebetter]

A while back I saw a white RC F cresting over a hill in front of me (hwy 2 Eastbound in SnoHo County--in case this was you Monogram, though you seem perhaps to be in Portland?) and it kind of awestruck me. Looked, to me, like a race car with that hourglass grill and wide body. Even though i followed its pre production stuff fairly close, I almost didnt recognize it. Awesome in person.

Seems like the RC F is being punished for being comfortable and still laying down track times on par with machines neither as safe, reliable, or comfortable. Ones which will resale for much less as well, most likely. Perhaps Lexus did get close to perfection, and to some that may be uninspiring. I think it is awesome, though I find all cars pretty awesome. Haha.

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by ajaxthebetter

A while back I saw a white RC F cresting over a hill in front of me (hwy 2 Eastbound in SnoHo County--in case this was you Monogram, though you seem perhaps to be in Portland?) and it kind of awestruck me. Looked, to me, like a race car with that hourglass grill and wide body. Even though i followed its pre production stuff fairly close, I almost didnt recognize it. Awesome in person.

Seems like the RC F is being punished for being comfortable and still laying down track times on par with machines neither as safe, reliable, or comfortable. Ones which will resale for much less as well, most likely. Perhaps Lexus did get close to perfection, and to some that may be uninspiring. I think it is awesome, though I find all cars pretty awesome. Haha.

It's not so much being punished, but being given flack for being labeled as something it isn't.

I love the car to hell and back, to the point I was pushing my dad to buy a RC 350 F Sport off the show room floor at the DC auto show as apposed to an Audi S5 because it honestly has one of best interiors of any car I've sat in..

The thing is though...

A good slug of people, simply don't care about reliability or comfort for when purchasing performance/sports car.... especially when they have the finances to fork out 60k+ on a car. They want something that puts performance above all else

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by ajaxthebetter

A while back I saw a white RC F cresting over a hill in front of me (hwy 2 Eastbound in SnoHo County--in case this was you Monogram, though you seem perhaps to be in Portland?) and it kind of awestruck me. Looked, to me, like a race car with that hourglass grill and wide body. Even though i followed its pre production stuff fairly close, I almost didnt recognize it. Awesome in person.

Seems like the RC F is being punished for being comfortable and still laying down track times on par with machines neither as safe, reliable, or comfortable. Ones which will resale for much less as well, most likely. Perhaps Lexus did get close to perfection, and to some that may be uninspiring. I think it is awesome, though I find all cars pretty awesome. Haha.

Perfection?

Not even close. That's what the problem is. It's like what @Joakim3 said. Don't try to make the car into something that it's not. For people like me, the car is too damn heavy. 3950 lbs dry without driver 4,200 lbs with driver and fuel is only a few hundred lbs lighter than my old 2006 GMC Sierra 1500 W/T! But even worse, it's a full 1,200 lbs heavier than an 86 with driver and fuel. Really?

It doesn't matter how many electronic do-dads the RC-F has to try and compensate, that much weight can't be hidden from physics. The car's tires, brakes, and driveline take a beating lugging around all that pork. This is no track car (even if it will drive itself fast on a hot lap or two). This is the only contentious point I can find in the fanboi arguments I'm seeing.

Let's be real, the RC-F is a very fast GT. That's all good. Understand though that driving a car with that much flab isn't the kind of sports car experience generally appreciated in a forum full of people who love their featherweight 2+2s. The RC-F is also fine for the occasional HDPE, but suggesting that this car is great or near perfection in both road and track environments is just plain silly.

[Monogram]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

.....You'd be amazed what 15 extra hp, active suspension and drive change setting can do for lap times.

It ran the lap faster though, it's irrelevant if it ran slower than RC-F on an particular attempt? Second... you posted one track lap comparison that wasn't even timed under equal conditions. That doesn't help your argument in any shape or form. Oh, and 4 seconds is not close.. not by a long shot.

My perspective is fine.... It's a fast GT car, that can keep pace with most sports cars. Whats the confusion about?



You can thank Porsche badging for the price premium, and price inflation. Second I don't know anyone who specs their Caymen out to the max as it starts encroaching into 911 territory. A GTS starts at 74k so it's in RC-F price range even thought the cars don't compete what so ever

Yeah a brand new 2015 Z06 is 90k+.... the one they tested you can get for 40k now



Buy a used 997 911 Turbo. You can get it with 3 pedals, you get a sun-roof, it's probably just as reliable, saves you money on gas, you get 4WD, you have just as much gismos and toys, even more exclusive, can post better lap times.... and save yourself 10k

See what I did there?

The RC-F isn't the best thing since sliced bread, or the re-invention of the wheel.


Again I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about how good or not good your car is compared to cars that aren't even in the same market as it

You are continuing to argue. You've now decided to start trying to compare new cars to old used cars to support some ideal that evidently means something to you.

Dealers typically bring in the harder to get vehicles fully optioned, and this was true for the GTS that I considered buying.

Four seconds is an eternity on a track, but without specifics any conjecture about vehicle configuration and driver skill is useless. The first comparison I found, I posted. It was nothing more than that.

[Monogram]

Originally Posted by ajaxthebetter

A while back I saw a white RC F cresting over a hill in front of me (hwy 2 Eastbound in SnoHo County--in case this was you Monogram, though you seem perhaps to be in Portland?) and it kind of awestruck me. Looked, to me, like a race car with that hourglass grill and wide body. Even though i followed its pre production stuff fairly close, I almost didnt recognize it. Awesome in person.

Seems like the RC F is being punished for being comfortable and still laying down track times on par with machines neither as safe, reliable, or comfortable. Ones which will resale for much less as well, most likely. Perhaps Lexus did get close to perfection, and to some that may be uninspiring. I think it is awesome, though I find all cars pretty awesome. Haha.

I've been out that direction a number of times. If it was a white carbon, it might have been.

[Monogram]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Perfection?

Not even close. That's what the problem is. It's like what @Joakim3 said. Don't try to make the car into something that it's not. For people like me, the car is too damn heavy. 3950 lbs dry without driver 4,200 lbs with driver and fuel is only a few hundred lbs lighter than my old 2006 GMC Sierra 1500 W/T! But even worse, it's a full 1,200 lbs heavier than an 86 with driver and fuel. Really?

It doesn't matter how many electronic do-dads the RC-F has to try and compensate, that much weight can't be hidden from physics. The car's tires, brakes, and driveline take a beating lugging around all that pork. This is no track car (even if it will drive itself fast on a hot lap or two). This is the only contentious point I can find in the fanboi arguments I'm seeing.

Let's be real, the RC-F is a very fast GT. That's all good. Understand though that driving a car with that much flab isn't the kind of sports car experience generally appreciated in a forum full of people who love their featherweight 2+2s. The RC-F is also fine for the occasional HDPE, but suggesting that this car is great or near perfection in both road and track environments is just plain silly.

I did over 100 laps at the last PIR HPDE I attended, and zero brake fade. 25+ laps for four sessions. Worked great, and I had a blast. I didn't get a lap count, but I stopped in at The Ridge and ran a session last weekend. Worked great. Lots of fun. Your statement that the car is only good for a few laps is ridiculous ... and, yes, it was run very hard.

[ajaxthebetter]

Hmm. I was attempting to state how the F is nearly perfect at what it attemtps to be. A fast car that can be driven in any number of scenarios, excelling in the ones high HP cars so often fail in.

It's interesting that the M is considered a track weapon while the F is not. The M is porky too, yet it is revered as a true sports car. If peformance was all that mattered, anyone in this monetary segment would be left with but two simple choices:ZO6;Viper. And really, the Viper would be the go to yet it is not. It is manual. Brutal. Hot. Extremely capable. But yet it does not sell because people don't care enough about those things as much as we all pretend they matter.

Every vehicle is a compromise, yet I think the F compromises less of its company's core traits than the others.

And it does so nearly perfectly, in my opinion.

[tennisfreak]

The F is ~400lbs heavier than the M so I'd venture to say it is quite portlier than the M.

Viper: It was never given the handling capabilities for the power it had. Recent models are better but outside of the ACR edition the handling capabilities do not match its peers.

Z06 is a huge success and these things sell like hotcakes.

I'd say that if they could drop 300lbs off the RCF it would be just about perfect.