oversteer and understeer

[orc]

Hi guys:

for all BRZ and GR86 lovers. I watched many videos on how to overcome oversteer and understeer, but I really found these two videos to be the most informative and logical.

Please spend some time to watch them. IE: this does help in driving any car that could come to a potential problem (ex: snow slid)

[ZDan]

Kinda reluctant to respond but...

All I wanna know is what the F is with this guy's hair? Is it like that on purpose?

Sweet merciful jeebus, just take your car to the track and wring it out. And forget this guy...

[NoHaveMSG]

Practice

/endthread

[orc]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Kinda reluctant to respond but...

All I wanna know is what the F is with this guy's hair? Is it like that on purpose?

Sweet merciful jeebus, just take your car to the track and wring it out. And forget this guy...

For an expert like you guys might be irrelevant, but for me I learned few new things.

I did not even know what is oversteer/understeer till lately. and I think this video taught me a lot. Again this is for beginners. But from what I see is lots of experts also make mistakes and it is good to always learn.

[timurrrr]

Oh, that's Max from Track Titan, but before Track Titan

https://www.tracktitan.io/team
Max is a globally certified Porsche Instructor

I like the (newer) Track Titan videos.
More often than not they explain topics well, and in a very beginner-friendly fashion.
Sometimes they oversimplify things to the point of being incorrect
(such as "apex is the point of the lowest radius"), but those are relatively rare.

I also tried the Track Titan app to see if AI-driven coaching can be helpful in simracing.
My personal answer is "not yet", but I found their data visualization tool very helpful to
explain certain concepts to my beginner simracing friends.

Their weekly challenges are fun to participate in!

Originally Posted by ZDan

Sweet merciful jeebus, just take your car to the track and wring it out. And forget this guy...

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Practice

I know too many people who practiced the wrong thing for years.
Or even got themselves into trouble because they didn't understand
car dynamics well.

I haven't watched these specific videos, but based on my own experience,
I wish someone showed me some of the Track Titan videos much earlier.
Sure, a good coach at a good car control clinic will explain most of those things too.
Not everyone has the money to hire a good coach, and/or afford an extra CCC.

P.s. I don't think this discussion should be in the "2nd gens" subforum,
but might be interesting to continue in the "Tracking" subforum.

[ZDan]

Thanks for this post! I think I may be very wrong here...

For sure different people learn *differently*!

I thought I knew everything before I did my first track event, and lo, I was very wrong... But for *me*, honestly I was hindered by some basic-level "instruction" including such gems as "Only brake in a straight line!" and "You're going too fast, you don't know how fast you're going!".

My advice would be to get out there and feel things out and not take *anything* as doctrine. It is a subtle art...

Originally Posted by orc

For an expert like you guys might be irrelevant, but for me I learned few new things.

I did not even know what is oversteer/understeer till lately. and I think this video taught me a lot. Again this is for beginners. But from what I see is lots of experts also make mistakes and it is good to always learn.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

I know too many people who practiced the wrong thing for years.
Or even got themselves into trouble because they didn't understand
car dynamics well.

I haven't watched these specific videos, but based on my own experience,
I wish someone showed me some of the Track Titan videos much earlier.
Sure, a good coach at a good car control clinic will explain most of those things too.
Not everyone has the money to hire a good coach, and/or afford an extra CCC.

P.s. I don't think this discussion should be in the "2nd gens" subforum,
but might be interesting to continue in the "Tracking" subforum.

I don't disagree, but I've seen the flip side of this were they have overwhelmed themselves with info they don't fully understand and become confused. I think if you are interested in understanding car dynamics to this point time would be better served with a coach.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by ZDan

But for *me*, honestly I was hindered by some basic-level "instruction" including such gems as "Only brake in a straight line!" and "You're going too fast, you don't know how fast you're going!".

My advice would be to get out there and feel things out and not take *anything* as doctrine.

And the worst lie of all times,

imagine there is a rope between your right foot and the steering wheel

Can't count how many instructors from reputable organizations said that in front of me.
It took me a while to learn the car dynamics in enough detail to understand
how misleading this "rope" analogy is.

Totally agree that anything should be sanity-checked.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I've seen the flip side of this were they have overwhelmed themselves with info they don't fully understand and become confused.

Also true!
These should be a balance in theory and practice, and it's very individual.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

And the worst lie of all times,

Can't count how many instructors from reputable organizations said that in front of me.
It took me a while to learn the car dynamics in enough detail to understand
how misleading this "rope" analogy is.

Totally agree that anything should be sanity-checked.



Also true!
These should be a balance in theory and practice, and it's very individual.

What I find through talking with friends is a lack of understanding about the "why" behind techniques. They want to learn trail braking but don't know the "why" behind it. Even just braking technique in general. Managing weight transfer is largely understated.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

What I find through talking with friends is a lack of understanding about the "why" behind techniques. They want to learn trail braking but don't know the "why" behind it. Even just braking technique in general. Managing weight transfer is largely understated.

Yuup.
And the "rope" analogy very much gets in the way here.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Yuup.
And the "rope" analogy very much gets in the way here.

With 86cup in your area but I bet you see a lot of drivers grow quickly. Being able to talk with people on the same platform really helps. There has been a bit of a resurgence of twins in my area at the track but for a while it was getting slim.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

What I find through talking with friends is a lack of understanding about the "why" behind techniques. They want to learn trail braking but don't know the "why" behind it. Even just braking technique in general. Managing weight transfer is largely understated.

Many... Many, many, many people are literally incapable of even asking the question, much less being able to develop a working mental model to fit the experience. I have with great sadness come to accept that as a simple fact of life.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Many... Many, many, many people are literally incapable of even asking the question, much less being able to develop a working mental model to fit the experience. I have with great sadness come to accept that as a simple fact of life.

Yeah but the few that do are fun to hang around

just watch out for the ones trying to recruit you into a pyramid scheme.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

pyramid scheme.

lolol...


OMG that was a great laugh.