Lightest Better Brakes for 17" Wheels?

[14stu]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I have the sprint kit too. Just out of curiosity what is your favorite brake pad? I'm do for a set and have been looking around.

I'm a big fan of the Ferodo Pads, they're loud and dust a lot; however, they work so damn well they make other pads hard to go back to. I've run all the versions from DS1.11 to DS3.11 with all of the intermediate steps, they pretty much all work similarly but if you have a compound that can't take the heat you're putting into them, they'll wear at a faster rate. They've gone up in price in recent years, but if you like a firm brake feel and smooth release, they're just hard to beat.

GLoC/Carbotech are fine (I've got a set one the car right now), but when available, I'll still spring for the Ferodo pads. The Hawk DTC pads can work too (60's or 70's with the sprint kit), they're as loud and dusty as the Ferodos but don't work quite as well and the 70's don't like to be cold (I'll drive the Ferodos daily with my very short commute, but the DTC 70's are real track pads that do not work when cold so you do not want to daily drive them). I have a track buddy who liked the CSG pads, but I haven't tried them personally.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by 14stu

I'm a big fan of the Ferodo Pads, they're loud and dust a lot; however, they work so damn well they make other pads hard to go back to. I've run all the versions from DS1.11 to DS3.11 with all of the intermediate steps, they pretty much all work similarly but if you have a compound that can't take the heat you're putting into them, they'll wear at a faster rate. They've gone up in price in recent years, but if you like a firm brake feel and smooth release, they're just hard to beat.

GLoC/Carbotech are fine (I've got a set one the car right now), but when available, I'll still spring for the Ferodo pads. The Hawk DTC pads can work too (60's or 70's with the sprint kit), they're as loud and dusty as the Ferodos but don't work quite as well and the 70's don't like to be cold (I'll drive the Ferodos daily with my very short commute, but the DTC 70's are real track pads that do not work when cold so you do not want to daily drive them). I have a track buddy who liked the CSG pads, but I haven't tried them personally.

Thanks! Essex claims that the DS3.12 are almost silent and is what they're suggesting next. They don't offer the DS3.12 for the rear and are suggesting the DS1.11 I'm not sure if I'm crazy about mixing pads...

I started with a set of DS2500 as per their suggestion and killed them in no time. I'm a bit gun shy now. The car is primarily a track car now that I do drive on the street occasionally.

[autosenses]

As of right now, seems the ESSEX'S system is the best option for us. Some guys are running front and rear and some just front.

I just put in Hawk DTC 60 pads and fluid. Breaks are significantly better but a lot nosier and dusty.

[14stu]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Thanks! Essex claims that the DS3.12 are almost silent and is what they're suggesting next. They don't offer the DS3.12 for the rear and are suggesting the DS1.11 I'm not sure if I'm crazy about mixing pads...

I started with a set of DS2500 as per their suggestion and killed them in no time. I'm a bit gun shy now. The car is primarily a track car now that I do drive on the street occasionally.

I was running the 3.12's front and GLoC R10's in the rear, balance and performance worked well.

[falcon_wizard]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Thanks! Essex claims that the DS3.12 are almost silent and is what they're suggesting next. They don't offer the DS3.12 for the rear and are suggesting the DS1.11 I'm not sure if I'm crazy about mixing pads...

I started with a set of DS2500 as per their suggestion and killed them in no time. I'm a bit gun shy now. The car is primarily a track car now that I do drive on the street occasionally.

I had both the ds2500 and ds1.11. The 1.11 are in a complete different category and much more durable than the ds2500 for track use, and can still be used on the street with minimal fuss and little noise when bedded-in following ferodos instructions. If you drive them on the street a lot between track days, the pad transfer layer will eventually wear off and they’ll become noisy again, so at that point you re-bed them and they’ll be near silent except a tiny bit of squealing when coming slowly to a full stop, but for me it wasn’t objectionable.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by falcon_wizard

I had both the ds2500 and ds1.11. The 1.11 are in a complete different category and much more durable than the ds2500 for track use, and can still be used on the street with minimal fuss and little noise when bedded-in following ferodos instructions. If you drive them on the street a lot between track days, the pad transfer layer will eventually wear off and they’ll become noisy again, so at that point you re-bed them and they’ll be near silent except a tiny bit of squealing when coming slowly to a full stop, but for me it wasn’t objectionable.

The DTC 30/60 I was using on OEM where the same. Bed them in prior to track and they were good. Once you were on the street it didn't take long for the compound on the rotor to vanish. They were loud!

I've spoken to Essex about using the 3.12 on the front and 2500 on rear and they don't see that as an issue.

[alex87f]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

Yeah, I guess that's the best option. Kinda surprised it doesn't included rear rotors & caliper brackets.
I'd be nice if they'd sell the front rotors with brackets to run stock calipers.

The rotors are massively thicker than stock. Wouldn't work.

What you're after can likely be achieved for much cheaper with some good pads, disks, hoses and fluid, whilst retaining the stock braking system.

[Lelandjt]

Originally Posted by alex87f

The rotors are massively thicker than stock. Wouldn't work.

What you're after can likely be achieved for much cheaper with some good pads, disks, hoses and fluid, whilst retaining the stock braking system.

I thought there would be enough demand for this that someone would be selling slightly larger 2-piece rotors and caliper relocating brackets. I got a kit like that for a '98 Impreza.

[alex87f]

Well if you've got one grand to spend, you can upgrade the existing system with better components (which can take a lot of abuse).

If you've got three grand, you can buy the AP front kit.

The market for "I want slightly larger disks even though the car doesn't really need'em, and I'm not willing to pay for a BBK" is just that small I'm afraid . Especially considering there are parts bin specials out there (PP brakes, WRX calipers, CTS-V calipers) that work.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

Larger rotors create more brake torque for a given squeeze. They can absorb more heat and they cool faster. Better calipers have their own advantages over stock calipers but the easiest, cheapest way to improve your brakes (after pads & fluid) is larger rotors and they're usually much cheaper than calipers.

Stock brakes are more than capable of locking up even Hoosiers, so why do you NEED more front brake torque?

You've mentioned before you aren't going to be tracking this car, but you want to drop as much weight as possible.

AP Sprint Kit, Rear seat delete, lightweight battery.......you've just dropped 65-70 lbs. You can drop some more with a single exit, Ti Tomei exhaust not sure how much. Depending on what you do with wheel tire setups, you may or may not lose weight....TWS are about the lightest wheels you can buy I think, but they do not come cheap.

But you're about $10k deep at that point, for what? I seriously doubt you'll notice a big difference on the road for less than a 100lb weight drop.

For instance my 18x9.5s are lighter than the factory 18x7.5 (and they are just flow formed, not even fully forged), but I suspect the wider tires offset that.

[smoltz]

Sprint kit is a waste of money unless all you care about is looks, just run the factory setup. It's very good. Select new pads suited to your application if you feel the stock ones are inadequate.

[vindiesel]

Vote is for stock brakes +pads. Nobody gives a shit at the car show or your forum signature your weight reduction mods. If your not tracking and trying to obtain a particular lap time then aftermarket caliper setup is a waste.

True weight reduction would be lose weight yourself and or gasoline weighs 6lbs per gallon. So don’t buy a brake kit and only drive around with a max of 3 gallons of gas in the tank. So that should shed 60lbs. Definitely signature worthy bro (hits vape)

[Opie]

Originally Posted by smoltz

Sprint kit is a waste of money unless all you care about is looks, just run the factory setup. It's very good. Select new pads suited to your application if you feel the stock ones are inadequate.

I'll strongly disagree...if you are actually tracking your car regularly and care about pedal feel, actual decreased stopping distances and reducing your consumables cost vs the OEM brakes. The Sprint kit is the way to go.
You will get many more track days out of the pads & rotors before they need replacement, have better control and very likely lower lap times with the Sprint kit.
I, and many other, track focused owners here can attest to that. Pretty sure that if the track time spreadsheet listed brake configutration, many are on an Essex kit.

[smoltz]

Originally Posted by Opie

I'll strongly disagree...if you are actually tracking your car regularly and care about pedal feel, actual decreased stopping distances and reducing your consumables cost vs the OEM brakes. The Sprint kit is the way to go.
You will get many more track days out of the pads & rotors before they need replacement, have better control and very likely lower lap times with the Sprint kit.
I, and many other, track focused owners here can attest to that. Pretty sure that if the track time spreadsheet listed brake configutration, many are on an Essex kit.

I am curious what your personal experience is with this kit and the OEM setup?

I track my car regularly. 25+ days this year. About midway through this season, I "upgraded" to the Sprint kit from OEM.

Keep in mind that the sprint kit includes braided lines, so some of the feel is coming from there compared to stock if you are going from OEM to Sprint.

I was running CSG C1 pads with OEM rotors on the front and I switched to AP Racing Sprint w/ DS3.11.

I wouldn't say they are worse than the stock setup I had, but they aren't appreciably better either. I didn't say that they didn't work, I just said they're a waste of money.

There is talk of this being cheaper in consumables, but I don't see how that's going to work out. The AP rotor rings are not cheap and there are no third party options. OEM sized blanks can be bought very cheaply. And while the pads are slightly thicker for AP, since the setup weighs less overall you're putting a lot of heat into the system.

The spreadsheet you referenced doesn't list brake setup so that's neither here nor there. A lot of people might run the sprint kit, but a lot of people go to McDonalds everyday, that doesn't mean the food is good.

At the end of the day it's your money, spend it how you see fit but in hidsight I would have done Brembo BM4 or maybe the Stock Brembo setup or maybe AP endurance, but not Sprint. It just doesn't deliver enough value over the stock seutp for the price. YMMV.