Easiest/Cheapest way to get more power?

[tomm.brz]

if your am was logging 0 you obviously had a out to date template , so it your (the user) fault, not oft's

it takes 2 minutes to update template to the latest one with oft manager


i m mapping 2 cars with oft and they log everything good, just the command afr is a bit offset in the positive side (something like +0.2/0.25, not so relevant when you know it)


it's a logging AND flashing device, it feels incomplete only if you are so accostumed to ecutek that you miss logging 30+ values at a time, but again, not incomplete to not allow you to reach exact same performance as ecutek, racerom features aside.
it logs everything you need, just not more than 14 at a time because of the hardware limitations, you have this comfortable but small and not expensive tablet instead of a windows laptop that is 10 times bigger minimum
so oft costs around 500$ and that's it, for ecutek you need a windows laptop (cost variable)+ cable (350$)+ licence (300$)+ racerom package to benefit the extra features (350$) and/or a tuner (350$)


actually, there are pretty important submaps that ecutek doesnt define, but oft does, like timing compensation per cylinder, and throttle minimum tip in enrichment activation, and many others. and that bothers me a lot


hope you remember i have ecutek and racerom package, i just don t like your denigration about oft, because it sounds to me at this point that's just you that can t use it properly, but the truth is another story

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

if your am was logging 0 you obviously had a out to date template , so it your (the user) fault, not oft's

it takes 2 minutes to update template to the latest one with oft manager

...


hope you remember i have ecutek and racerom package, i just don t like your denigration about oft, because it sounds to me at this point that's just you that can t use it properly, but the truth is another story

The device was updated with the latest software using oft manager. The logging issue with zeros is related with specific ROM id's.

I was not disatisfied only by the OFT. I also mentioned about the sprint booster which I tested it at a different time and it gave too much wheel spin.

[tomm.brz]

well i dont know when you tried the oft, but can t be everything perfect super quick, it takes time to do reverse engineering and software developing

i also had to wait a bit that ecutek completed defining k00g roms to tune my my17
as today the logging problems with oft are gone anyway

sprint booster sounds stupid anyway, nothing that a good tune of the accel to torque and throttle maps tuning can t do

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

There isn't too much to elaborate. This mod has been mentioned in Nasioc for years to be one of the best value for money choices. The car has a Subaru boxer engine and these guys know better. You either believe this and try it or you don't believe it and try something else.

If you want more details you can read below, but don't ask me to backup his arguments:
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...40&postcount=1

I'll make a deal with you. Find/Compile diameters and weights of stock pulleys and whichever aftermarket pulleys you are suggesting, and I will include them in my inertia calculator. The math will prove or disprove performance claims without bias. It will take a week or two to finish that up to give relatively accurate numbers.

[guybo]

IF you have access to E85 AND emissions testing isn't a problem, the best combo of cheap and easy and power is to gut the cats, get OFT and retune on E85. Hands down, by far the best bang for the buck. Only Tactrix is cheaper (though I'm only going by what I've read). But Tactrix is not easy, OFT is very easy to is.

I got my OFT for $350 and my fuel cost has gone down about 10% because E85 is a lot cheaper here. Putting down right around 200HP 160ft-lbs to the wheels

[NoHaveMSG]

OFT and E85 as others have mentioned. I'm always jealous of you guys that get e85, I don't have it anywhere near me.

It is not an HP mod but dropping the FD to a 4.30, 4.44, or 4.56 would be a big gain in acceleration and feel.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

OFT and E85 as others have mentioned. I'm always jealous of you guys that get e85, I don't have it anywhere near me.

It is not an HP mod but dropping the FD to a 4.30, 4.44, or 4.56 would be a big gain in acceleration and feel.

Quote
i d really love to switch to at least 4.3 to get a nice gain in wheel torque, but that s not so cheap to do unluckily

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Quote
i d really love to switch to at least 4.3 to get a nice gain in wheel torque, but that s not so cheap to do unluckily

Yeah I agree it is not cheap, but even if you buy a cusco 4.56 fd and then labor to install, it is about the same price as an OFT, header, and catback.

[tomm.brz]

i d still prefer the oft & exhaust combo .. but all is better :P

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I'll make a deal with you. Find/Compile diameters and weights of stock pulleys and whichever aftermarket pulleys you are suggesting, and I will include them in my inertia calculator. The math will prove or disprove performance claims without bias. It will take a week or two to finish that up to give relatively accurate numbers.

You cannot find all the gains by calculating the rotational inertia difference. It is a bit different than a lightweight flywheel where the gains are just from the weight. The OEM pulley is a three piece design with a rubber component in between. Try to imagine what happens if you mount a solid pulley. Each power pulse and crankshaft twist is transferred to the drive belt, causing to vibrate from the constant stretch/release of the power pulses. The end result is a vibration or harmonic noise similar to plucking a guitar string. This means that you have more noise to the driven components, more engine noise and in general more belt wear(*), but also a much stiffer pulley mounted on your crankshaft. The latter provides better engine response under hard acceleration and in general a minimization of losses. A similar component in this direction is the thicker drive shaft provided by STI : https://www.sti.jp/parts/subarubrz_z.../ST28421AS100/


(*) Toda Racing includes a new standard length belt with their kit. They say that installing a new belt is important to improve reliability.

[Spuds]

Also +1 on OFT, drop in filter, and headers (and E85 if it's available) for cheapest power increases. I don't have headers yet, but that's next on my list.

My butt dyno likes a lighter wheel/tire combination if you want to go down that road.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

You cannot find all the gains by calculating the rotational inertia difference. It is a bit different than a lightweight flywheel where the weight gains are much larger. The OEM pulley is a three piece design with a rubber component in between. Try to imagine what happens if you mount a solid pulley. Each power pulse and crankshaft twist is transferred to the drive belt, causing to vibrate from the constant stretch/release of the power pulses. The end result is a vibration or harmonic noise similar to plucking a guitar string. This means that you have more noise to the driven components, more engine noise and in general more belt wear(*), but also a much stiffer pulley mounted on your crankshaft. The latter provides better engine response under hard acceleration and in general a minimization of losses. A similar component in this direction is the thicker drive shaft provided by STI : https://www.sti.jp/parts/subarubrz_z.../ST28421AS100/


(*) Toda Racing includes a new standard length belt with their kit. They say that installing a new belt is important to improve reliability.

No. Just no. Vibration is not good. Vibration is loss of energy. By adding vibration to a system you are pulling useful energy out of the system and putting it into whatever mounting is opposing the vibration (the idler spring). First and second laws of thermodynamics will apply. You will NEVER get the same amount of energy out of a vibration as you put in. Period.

A thicker drive shaft flexes less and therefore has better response because there is a greater moment of inertia to counter the flexing. Completely different mechanic than what you were trying to describe.

I was giving you the botd in terms of pulleys losing energy to more vibration since the loss would be low in this case.

[JIM THEO]

A friend of me with MY02 STI has had engine failure (main bearing) that was probably due to lightweight flywheel + pulleys, no other mods to his car but maybe it was irrelevant, who knows!
Back to our case what I suggest you is what I am going to do to my own MY18 BRZ: aftermarket UEL headers, ECU remap (OFT, Ecuflash or Ecutek) and later a closer final drive say 4.56:1!
It all depends from where you drive, what are your goals and finally personal preferences, each mod has its pros and cons, ECU remap with tactrix cable and Ecuflash is the cheapest power money can buy!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Spuds

No. Just no. Vibration is not good. Vibration is loss of energy. By adding vibration to a system you are pulling useful energy out of the system and putting it into whatever mounting is opposing the vibration (the idler spring). First and second laws of thermodynamics will apply. You will NEVER get the same amount of energy out of a vibration as you put in. Period.

Yes on constant rpm's scenarios it has been shown that the OEM pulley or even a better damper like the fluidampr pulley provide a few gains (1-2 whp). How much usefull is this on racing or ordinary drive situations is debatable since you usually want better results on acceleration and deceleration and not much during constant rpm's. The real difference with a solid crankshaft pulley is on acceleration situations. All these have been tested decades ago and let's not start here re-inventing the wheel. The original question was what are the cheapest changes and from my point of view I believe it is a pulley. If someone doesn't believe that there are any gains, then he can choose the other options.