Squat for '17+ Cars?

[phm14]

I've spent hours today researching power mods for my '20. Other than "filling in the torque dip", I'm not seeing much reason to throw parts & tune at the car. I've been to a few tuning sites, and they're still quoting gains for the 13-16 cars for their products. Youtube dyno tests show 3-4 hp/torque gains with header/exhaust/tune. Am I wrong in assuming there's just not much out there for '17+ NA power mods? From what I've read, it looks like there hasn't been any real progress since the factory improvements for MY 2017...unless I see +10hp/torque over my MY 20 #s, it just doesn't seen worth the expense & headaches. I read one post here that said there's no AM header that fits without rubbing other parts of the car...f that!

[NoHaveMSG]

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121460

[EndlessAzure]

Not sure what you mean. Most of the dynos that parts manufacturers tout are claims without a tune.

The 17+ MY offers 5 hp over 13-16 due to IM and header improvements, among other engine improvements. But that's just stock-to-stock.

Obviously leaves a torque dip and the rest of the power band to improve with a header and tune. If you can get +30 HP on a 13-16 on Stage 2 + FF, it would still leave at least +25 HP to net on a 17+.


As far as the "one post," some popular headers have had rub issues (JDL and Ace come to mind), but there are others that don't (e.g. Tomei).


Keep on reading

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by phm14

I've spent hours today researching power mods for my '20. Other than "filling in the torque dip", I'm not seeing much reason to throw parts & tune at the car. I've been to a few tuning sites, and they're still quoting gains for the 13-16 cars for their products. Youtube dyno tests show 3-4 hp/torque gains with header/exhaust/tune. Am I wrong in assuming there's just not much out there for '17+ NA power mods? From what I've read, it looks like there hasn't been any real progress since the factory improvements for MY 2017...unless I see +10hp/torque over my MY 20 #s, it just doesn't seen worth the expense & headaches. I read one post here that said there's no AM header that fits without rubbing other parts of the car...f that!

Just about everything that fits the 13-16 cars, fits the '17+. The only exception being some intake pieces and axelbacks. As for gains, are you asking what all there is to milk gains out of being NA? There are plenty of headers that fit without rubbing issues. The only ones are the ACE A350 and JDL 4-2-1 header.

[Pat]

This thread is not what I expected based on the subject line.

[Lantanafrs2]

If you have access to e85 that's all you need to get to 200whp. Of course you'll need a tune for that but 20hp for 500 bucks ain't bad

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Pat

This thread is not what I expected based on the subject line.

me either.

[Sapphireho]

I thought I could do some squats and get a car.

[phm14]

I should have been more specific about what I'm looking for. I'm not interested in E85, and value matters, as I'm looking to enhance enjoyment of a 95% street car, not competition. I was hoping a $500 OFT tune would be available for something like a Tomei UEL header, so that's ~$1200. I've read that some tunes for 13-16 cars may not play nice with the significantly different programming in the newer cars, yet companies like OFT don't have tunes speced for the '17s. Is there a catted solution that widens the powerband and won't throw a code? Is it less than $2K? If we're talking $2K+ for a header (possibly coated to offset heat sink) and tune, I'd like to hear what the gen 2 offers before dumping that much MORE cash into the car. I do have much to learn about power modding this platform, but spending close to 10% of the value of the car to shift power around may not make my personal value threshold. My car has a Nameless axleback, so if I went catless header, I understand it would be louder, which I don't want. I was looking at putting the stock muffler back on in that case.

[EndlessAzure]

Originally Posted by phm14

I should have been more specific about what I'm looking for. I'm not interested in E85, and value matters, as I'm looking to enhance enjoyment of a 95% street car, not competition. I was hoping a $500 OFT tune would be available for something like a Tomei UEL header, so that's ~$1200. I've read that some tunes for 13-16 cars may not play nice with the significantly different programming in the newer cars, yet companies like OFT don't have tunes speced for the '17s. Is there a catted solution that widens the powerband and won't throw a code? Is it less than $2K? If we're talking $2K+ for a header (possibly coated to offset heat sink) and tune, I'd like to hear what the gen 2 offers before dumping that much MORE cash into the car. I do have much to learn about power modding this platform, but spending close to 10% of the value of the car to shift power around may not make my personal value threshold. My car has a Nameless axleback, so if I went catless header, I understand it would be louder, which I don't want. I was looking at putting the stock muffler back on in that case.

You won't get any more than a ~5 HP from a header without a tune.



Not too many catted headers out there, but easily get one like you talked about for under $1500. You can even option one out now at JDL's website to get a feel for cost


If you're on a budget, buy used

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by phm14

I should have been more specific about what I'm looking for. I'm not interested in E85, and value matters, as I'm looking to enhance enjoyment of a 95% street car, not competition. I was hoping a $500 OFT tune would be available for something like a Tomei UEL header, so that's ~$1200. I've read that some tunes for 13-16 cars may not play nice with the significantly different programming in the newer cars, yet companies like OFT don't have tunes speced for the '17s. Is there a catted solution that widens the powerband and won't throw a code? Is it less than $2K? If we're talking $2K+ for a header (possibly coated to offset heat sink) and tune, I'd like to hear what the gen 2 offers before dumping that much MORE cash into the car. I do have much to learn about power modding this platform, but spending close to 10% of the value of the car to shift power around may not make my personal value threshold. My car has a Nameless axleback, so if I went catless header, I understand it would be louder, which I don't want. I was looking at putting the stock muffler back on in that case.

Yeah, they do. Don't know where you heard this. There is less support for the 17+ cars, IE there are no off the shelf E85 tunes for the 17+ cars, but other tunes for different CALID's can be modified to work.

[S0crates]

An ft86speedfactory catted uel header and an oft 2 tune made my 2017 much more fun to drive. The car feels more powerful everywhere and adds a nice mellow rumble. For $1500, it was totally worth it, even if it only added something like 15-20 horses. There are headers that will give more power, but I wanted to keep a cat on a street car with some rumble.

[86MLR]

Decat OEM header, decat front pipe, or if needed, replace OEM cat in front pipe with 200 cel metal cat, Ecutek tune using a "good" tuner.

I cannot stipulate more about finding and using a "good" tuner, travel if required.

People spend way to much money on shiny brand name parts that aren't really needed when NA tuning a "street" car.

Use the money saved from not buying unrequired parts on the "good" tuner and suspension upgrades.

When NA, if it's a street car you don't need to spend alot of coin on parts to make near 200hpatw, but for gods sake, get a real tune, not some one size fits none flash tune.

90% of people who say they can tune, cannot tune.

Look for a tuner who is well known in the race community and has a waitlist, and pay what he asks.

Only go remote tune if you live on the moon, hell, if you live on the moon, ship your car to the "good" tuner.

Have a look at my sig for some playing around I did when I had a 2017 86.

Opinions may vary

Also, most importantly, don't fall for marketing or the "sheep syndrome".

Happy journeys

Did I say find a "good" tuner.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by phm14

I should have been more specific about what I'm looking for. I'm not interested in E85, and value matters, as I'm looking to enhance enjoyment of a 95% street car, not competition. I was hoping a $500 OFT tune would be available for something like a Tomei UEL header, so that's ~$1200. I've read that some tunes for 13-16 cars may not play nice with the significantly different programming in the newer cars, yet companies like OFT don't have tunes speced for the '17s. Is there a catted solution that widens the powerband and won't throw a code? Is it less than $2K? If we're talking $2K+ for a header (possibly coated to offset heat sink) and tune, I'd like to hear what the gen 2 offers before dumping that much MORE cash into the car. I do have much to learn about power modding this platform, but spending close to 10% of the value of the car to shift power around may not make my personal value threshold. My car has a Nameless axleback, so if I went catless header, I understand it would be louder, which I don't want. I was looking at putting the stock muffler back on in that case.

Are you looking for a catted header for noise reasons or emissions reasons? I don't think Houston is that strict. If you want a catted UEL header, I'd recommend the FT86SpeedFactory. You can get it coated for just over $1k and will work just fine with the OFT. Personally, if you want to squeeze the most out of NA, I'd recommend the ACE CS400 plus ECUTek tune by CSG. It's the perfect combo for daily driving.