Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[ermax]

Originally Posted by rvoll

They are using the Cayman as a benchmark. Pricing will probably be in the mid-50's. At that level, I just don't think you'll have a big call for a manual -- especially if they use an auto anywhere near as good as the PDK. But this is all conjecture and dependent upon pricing and the target segments.

If the Cayman is the target then forsure it needs a manual. You do realize the Cayman has a manual available right? Remember when Porsche thought it was a good idea to drop the manual on the GT3? People lost their mind so they brought is back. People still like the manual regardless of it being slower or getting less mileage.

I think a lot of the decline of the MT isn't entirely due to lack of interest. I think the manufacturers are looking at the bottom line and would rather have one option. So if the AT outsells the MT even by a single percent they are going to try to push the AT more than the MT. There are a lot of people that would prefer a manual but when you go to the dealer and the assholes don't even have one forsale a lot of people settle for an AT. Then it just throws off the numbers even more. The percentage of people that are committed to manual enough to walk away from a dealer if they don't have a MT is very small.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The statement wasn't "The interior is smaller" the statement was "The car is smaller". Not a big deal and I was simply pointing out that the car is not smaller according to alleged dimensions. Now of course the difference could simply be bumper length and body panels but still not "smaller".

Understood and I did read it that way. Just tried to take it one step further to get more of the "sense" of the car. It's looking a lot like the 370Z with slightly different body panels both in body dimensions and engine/drivetrain. Perhaps it will end up being a slightly better Z....

[BRX]

Compared to the MKIV, it's just 10 inches shorter in length (167 vs 177) which as said helps with weight distribution. Every other aspect is larger body wise.

A 3 inch shorter wheel base was probably the result of it being a 2 seater vs the 4 seater 86 and MKIV.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Understood and I did read it that way. Just tried to take it one step further to get more of the "sense" of the car. It's looking a lot like the 370Z with slightly different body panels both in body dimensions and engine/drivetrain. Perhaps it will end up being a slightly better Z....

Without those god awful massively oversized door handles!

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by ermax

If the Cayman is the target then forsure it needs a manual. You do realize the Cayman has a manual available right? Remember when Porsche thought it was a good idea to drop the manual on the GT3? People lost their mind so they brought is back. People still like the manual regardless of it being slower or getting less mileage.

I think a lot of the decline of the MT isn't entirely due to lack of interest. I think the manufacturers are looking at the bottom line and would rather have one option. So if the AT outsells the MT even by a single percent they are going to try to push the AT more than the MT. There are a lot of people that would prefer a manual but when you go to the dealer and the assholes don't even have one forsale a lot of people settle for an AT. Then it just throws off the numbers even more. The percentage of people that are committed to manual enough to walk away from a dealer if they don't have a MT is very small.

From what I can gather, well over 90% of the Cayman's are sold with the PDK even though the manual is much cheaper. The higher the price of a sports car, the more the customer seems to want a DCT. I test drove both the manual and PDK Cayman and the PDK was so good that I would never have opted for the manual. Even manually shifting a PDK was faster than the manual for me.

[monkeybike]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Marketing a 4 cyl version of the same car at a much lower price is problematic from a marketing perspective. How do you advertise both cars at once?

See Mustangs.

[vh_supra26]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/mkv...-magazine.737/

MKV
Wheelbase 2,470 mm (97.2 in)
Length 4380 mm (172.4 in)
Width 1855 mm (73 in)
Height 1,290 mm (50.8 in)

Compare to the old model:

MKIV
Wheelbase 2,550 mm (100.4 in)
Length 4,515 mm (177.8 in)
Width 1,811 mm (71.3 in)
Height 1,265 mm (49.8 in)

Differences
Wheelbase -80 mm (-3.2 in)
Length -135 mm (-5.4 in)
Width +44mm (+1.7 in)
Height +25 mm (+1 in)

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by monkeybike

See Mustangs.

Your're right. Mustang does have a lower priced, stripped down model with a 4 cyl engine. Advertising is on the basis of style and the Mustang brand heritage. When a car is sold on the basis of style, it is possible. However, when I was talking about this, I was referring to a significant price difference. From what I've been able to glean, the 6 cyl Supra will sell in the mid-50's, so a mid-30's 4 cyl version is a problem. If the 4 cyl sells in the mid-40's, it may not be a problem at all. How many of you would buy a 4 cyl Supra for $45K.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by rvoll

From what I can gather, well over 90% of the Cayman's are sold with the PDK even though the manual is much cheaper. The higher the price of a sports car, the more the customer seems to want a DCT. I test drove both the manual and PDK Cayman and the PDK was so good that I would never have opted for the manual. Even manually shifting a PDK was faster than the manual for me.

Okay so your criteria is shifting speed. Cool.. my criteria is fun factor. I'm fairly sure I am not alone here. I am not drag racing people on my daily commute. I don't give a damn if my car is .3secs slower 0-60. I've willing to give up .3secs to still have fun while driving. I guess I am the minority that likes cars for driving and not for bragging rights.

But you are right about higher priced cars. You get a lot of people that buy them like a **** sizing competition. They drive them like old ladies and don't want to be bothered with shifting while they parade how much money they have.

[Irace86.2.0]

370z n Cayman sized? Definitely not Miata sized.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

370z n Cayman sized? Definitely not Miata sized.

Cayman yes, 370z no. The Z has about the same length as the 86.

A90 Supra: 172.4
Cayman: 172.4
86: 166.7
370z: 167.5

https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/7...cayman-models/
https://www.toyota.com/86/features/mpg/6253/6255/6257
https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/s...are-specs.html

[drew_kar]

Lol this car is going to be a monster guys. The engine isn't some off the shelf unit. Yes it will be twice the price of an 86, but it'll have twice the horsepower with minimal weight penalty. I have faith in Toyota on this one, they know how to make a fun car.

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[gymratter]

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by ermax

My point was all the cars listed fall under a segment that is low volume and caters to MT. Again, this has nothing to do with one being faster than the other It's about personal preference and fun factor. FYI, Toyota didn't go out of their way to make the AT slower on our car. They just didn't bother building a specific tranny for the car and simply dropped the A960E from the IS250 in with some software changes and different stall converter. Again, they knew they needed to focus on their target market which is MT.

That begs the question as to why they put special differential gearing in the auto trans car. Why not just cut cost and use the same FD gears for both the auto and the manual right from the start of production?

I do believe that the one market that may hang on to a manual transmission longer than any other is the low price sporty car. The MX-5 and the 86/BRZ are prime examples. Upmarket cars like the Supra will move to the more sophisticated and higher performance engine/transmission combinations to emulate what has happened on the racetrack and with the exotics.