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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


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Old 07-13-2021, 11:29 AM   #267
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I don't miss a manual transmission one bit, after driving nothing but manual for about 30 years. To each their own! Agreed - choices are good to have.
I drive my paddle shifter cars in manual when in the canyons as I still like having the option to shift when I want, and leave them on auto in traffic.
Paddles don't feel the same to me.
I tried using them on my BMW a few times, but it just feels like whats the point? Just let the automatic deal with shifting.
Eventually i'll give up the stick-shift but right now...give me manual

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It’s sad that only Japan is giving us affordable RWD manual options.

Where is the Solstice/Sky? Where is the BMW Z2 that was rumored almost 10 years ago? The cheapest non-Japanese offering is the Cayman at 60K.
Camaro/Mustang?

But yeah its pretty slim pickings.
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Old 07-13-2021, 11:49 AM   #268
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we're lucky that both the BRZ and Z will be available. Neither one is 'right' or 'wrong'. Chocolate and vanilla, just different flavors of the same idea for individual preferences.
A friend and I were talking about the lack of affordable lightweight rwd sports cars, but I realized that as long as the second gen BRZ and ND2 Miata exist, I’m perfectly happy. As sad as it is that there aren’t more competitors in the sub-3000 lbs rwd space, both are amazing cars.
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Old 07-13-2021, 11:51 AM   #269
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Paddles don't feel the same to me.
I tried using them on my BMW a few times, but it just feels like whats the point? Just let the automatic deal with shifting.

The point is you control when you shift with the paddles, just like a stick. If you leave it in auto, it may not shift exactly when you want, unless your BMW is shifting exactly when you'd want it to all the time, which is an even better case to do away with a manual transmission. In auto, it's more likely to upshift to save gas than keep in the power band depending on the mode. Of course paddles don't feel the same; no one claims that they do. You just don't have to move your right hand from the wheel to shift gears. They're just faster and more convenient.
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Old 07-13-2021, 12:43 PM   #270
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The point is you control when you shift with the paddles, just like a stick.
Nope not for me. You have no control how hard/fast the load gets transferred. My big gripe with paddles is not the absence of the shifter, but the absence of the clutch pedal.

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Old 07-13-2021, 12:55 PM   #271
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Nope. You have no control how hard/fast the load gets transferred. My big gripe with paddles is not the absence of the shifter, but the absence of the clutch pedal.

You're talking two different things now. If you want slow shifts or to control the actual shift with a clutch pedal, then sure, it's not the same. If you want the change gears quickly and determine when that happens, then the paddles do that very well. If you want to drift or do certain things that require some coordination of the shifter and clutch pedal, then sure, a manual is needed. I can't think of any situation where I'm unable to do what I need to with the paddle shifters, during daily driving or canyon runs.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:09 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by shiumai View Post
You're talking two different things now. If you want slow shifts or to control the actual shift with a clutch pedal, then sure, it's not the same. If you want the change gears quickly and determine when that happens, then the paddles do that very well. If you want to drift or do certain things that require some coordination of the shifter and clutch pedal, then sure, a manual is needed. I can't think of any situation where I'm unable to do what I need to with the paddle shifters, during daily driving or canyon runs.

Exactly. When you’re trying to drive fast the paddles are fine, but for daily driving or 8/10ths spirited driving they’re clunky and too harsh most of the time. I never put my BMW in manual mode, I played with the paddles when I got it first and never really since.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:09 PM   #273
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The point is you control when you shift with the paddles, just like a stick. If you leave it in auto, it may not shift exactly when you want, unless your BMW is shifting exactly when you'd want it to all the time, which is an even better case to do away with a manual transmission. In auto, it's more likely to upshift to save gas than keep in the power band depending on the mode. Of course paddles don't feel the same; no one claims that they do. You just don't have to move your right hand from the wheel to shift gears. They're just faster and more convenient.
If i was ever in a track environment i MIGHT have a different opinion of paddles, because i never took it to the track (no tracks around me). But i wouldnt know until i try.

However when trying the paddles i just put the car in sport mode, floor it and then click the paddles when i want to, and it shifts as soon as i click. But then...thats it....no drama, no nothing, no work, no anything. Gas pedal is just floored, arms dont move, left leg does nothing....

It just ends up feeling like a redundant thing to do. Maybe the auto does it better than me, maybe the auto shifts at a different time than i prefer, but it doesnt make me want to use the paddles at all. I did try one time at an onramp or turnoff and it felt very awkward to hold the wheel and try to click the paddle.

In the end, i dont care if its a faster, or more efficient operation. It doesnt feel the same as shifiting an actual manual transmission.

I guess when it comes down to it, I'd rather do everything myself or just let the transmission do all the work. No in between.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:14 PM   #274
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With everything going EV there will be no need for a manual. Let’s just hope we can keep our old cars.

For DD and spirited runs I prefer AT anyway. If it was a dedicated track car then MT would be the way to go for an older car. IF all AT were a PDK many would get it. They are that good.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:33 PM   #275
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I think I get where you guys are coming from, and certainly respect the enjoyment that completely manual shifting brings to some. I hadn't owned a manual since I sold my '78 280Z for the '13 BRZ, but was glad that I knew how to drive one when we went to Europe in 2019 on vacation and all the rental cars were manuals.

When it comes to paddle shifters, it also depends on the car and transmission, and the programming. Our Subaru Outback has paddle shifters, but it's a CVT so it doesn't really 'change gears' like the BRZ and it's a totally different feel. The BRZ in sport mode doesn't really change gears when I want it to for canyon driving, so use the paddle shifters around 90% of the time, even on the street.

I have a 2020 C8 Corvette which has a DCT, and that's also a different feel from the auto BRZ. The C8 has quite a few different modes that change when the shifts occur, and track mode is really good, but even so I like to use the paddle shifters. When I attended the Ron Fellows Corvette Owner's school at Spring Mountain, all driving for the 5 track sessions was done in manual mode using the paddle shifters. With the DCT, you can 'declutch' by holding both paddles back (as if you're pressing down on the clutch pedal), and release them to do a burnout, like popping the clutch. But, it's either engaged or disengaged with the paddle shifters, so you can't feather the clutch. There are some other cool features like holding down the 'down' paddle when braking and approaching a turn and it will downshift to the lowest possible gear to keep the revs up.

So, while autos aren't exactly the same as using the clutch pedal, not all of them are the same, and some offer some pretty cool features. But, to get the thread back on track, it really is good to have choices. Nowadays, the key word is 'performance', and for most manufacturers, the auto is the way to maximize that (looking at acceleration or track times). A manual may be more 'fun' and engaging, but usually that will be at the sacrifice of those performance times.
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Old 07-13-2021, 11:36 PM   #276
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Nowadays, the key word is 'performance', and for most manufacturers, the auto is the way to maximize that (looking at acceleration or track times). A manual may be more 'fun' and engaging, but usually that will be at the sacrifice of those performance times.
Here's an interesting video on this topic: manuals are also not created equally.



I haven't had a chance to drive a real Cayman GT4 on track,
but having driven one in Assetto Corsa on multiple tracks,
and comparing it to other manual cars, I'd either just get a PDK,
or a different car altogether. I was surprised how much more
I liked the Corvette C7, and not just because of the better gearing.
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Old 07-14-2021, 09:48 AM   #277
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Here's an interesting video on this topic: manuals are also not created equally.



I haven't had a chance to drive a real Cayman GT4 on track,
but having driven one in Assetto Corsa on multiple tracks,
and comparing it to other manual cars, I'd either just get a PDK,
or a different car altogether. I was surprised how much more
I liked the Corvette C7, and not just because of the better gearing.
What I learned form the video is the oems have to make so many compromises that you will never get exactly what you want. But with money and effort the aftermarket can usually deliver. So pick a platform you like and mod until it is what you want. Then keep the car and enjoy it.
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Old 07-14-2021, 10:53 AM   #278
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Nope not for me. You have no control how hard/fast the load gets transferred. My big gripe with paddles is not the absence of the shifter, but the absence of the clutch pedal.
I want a 7spd dual clutch paddle shift box with a clutch pedal SO BAD! The closest thing is the Corvette and GT2 that let you clutch by pulling in both paddles. Still no where near the same level of control. I learned to rally shortly after learning to dirtbike and manipulating power mid-turn with the clutch is something I don't want to give up. Hooning almost requires a clutch.
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Old 07-14-2021, 01:42 PM   #279
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Don't forget the Supra.
You can buy new Twins/Miata for $30k. Even the 4-cyl Supra is north of $40k.

That puts them in a different class, to me anyway.
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Old 07-14-2021, 02:02 PM   #280
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The one thing that will make the Gen2 a CLASSIC would be upgraded CON RODS, maybe pistons. If they came with strong forged internals that can take 600HP of boost without rebuilt short block, these things WILL sell.
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