follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
RR Racing
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-30-2020, 12:23 AM   #71
prandelia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Drives: 2015 FRS
Location: KY
Posts: 126
Thanks: 0
Thanked 99 Times in 58 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rixter145 View Post
Honestly if I were going to open up the heads, I would get the retainer kit so I will never have to worry about staying in the high RPM. Otherwise, just get a 2017 long block spare in case you blow yours. (But this is more of a band-aid than solving the issue)

10W50 is a REALLY thick oil. Did you do any UoA on it after oil changes?
Def adding rocker stoppers to my next motor....

It's not really heavy oil at all for racing. Toyota Motorsports Germany, who builds, supports and races factory 86 cars in Europe uses 10W60 and now 5W50 in their motors w/ oil coolers. They won't go anything below 5W50, for proper oil pressure and oil films at high temps/RPM. I've spoken directly with their engineers who see everything from sprint and endurance racing motors, they vigorously recommend it. That's how they avoid spinning rod bearings at similar NA power levels...

This whole "tight clearance" it needs thin oil thing with this motor is a complete myth....10W40 or 5-10W50 racing oil in these cars at 200-230 deg. is right at home. Did a UoA early on and it was fine when I used 5W40, and TMG told me to bump up to any high quality XW50...been using it every since, rods seem to be happy.
__________________
'15 FRS - GLTC spec
YouTube channel race vids: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClU...phsppnA/videos

prandelia is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to prandelia For This Useful Post:
PulsarBeeerz (09-30-2020), rixter145 (09-30-2020)
Old 09-30-2020, 12:42 AM   #72
solidsnake11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Drives: brz
Location: nc
Posts: 1,178
Thanks: 423
Thanked 707 Times in 424 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rixter145 View Post
10W50 is a REALLY thick oil. Did you do any UoA on it after oil changes?
Depends on what temperature it is at.
This seems to get lost in this forum.

Use your engine as a viscosity test rig.
If you have 40psi at redline, your oil is the viscosity of water.
solidsnake11 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to solidsnake11 For This Useful Post:
rixter145 (09-30-2020)
Old 09-30-2020, 12:52 AM   #73
solidsnake11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Drives: brz
Location: nc
Posts: 1,178
Thanks: 423
Thanked 707 Times in 424 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prandelia View Post
The real question is, are the OE pivots the same exact dimensions for 13-17+ cars....there are 3 different versions of internal valvetrain components.

I want to confirm these 100% work for all years by confirming the engine pivots never changed. The kit from the OP seems to only have 1 version which supposedly covers all years.
Get the newest. Lash will need to be checked anytime you change(or change position) the pivot or rocker or valve.
solidsnake11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 10:11 AM   #74
prandelia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Drives: 2015 FRS
Location: KY
Posts: 126
Thanks: 0
Thanked 99 Times in 58 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsnake11 View Post
Depends on what temperature it is at.
This seems to get lost in this forum.

Use your engine as a viscosity test rig.
If you have 40psi at redline, your oil is the viscosity of water.
Bingo. Oil is rated at 212F. Know your temps and monitor pressure, and use the oil accordingly. At redline, my pressures are routinely 88-90+psi at 215-230 temps, I virtually never see anything over 230F. Care idles warm at about 18-19psi.
__________________
'15 FRS - GLTC spec
YouTube channel race vids: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClU...phsppnA/videos

prandelia is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to prandelia For This Useful Post:
rixter145 (09-30-2020), solidsnake11 (10-01-2020)
Old 09-30-2020, 10:13 AM   #75
prandelia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Drives: 2015 FRS
Location: KY
Posts: 126
Thanks: 0
Thanked 99 Times in 58 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsnake11 View Post
Get the newest. Lash will need to be checked anytime you change(or change position) the pivot or rocker or valve.
that's my point. Are the pivots in this kit (http://denstoj.com.au/retainer-kit/) the same as in the '17+ cars, or the 13-14 cars?

If these OE pivots changed spec between 13-14, 15, and 17+ cars, then which pivots is Denstoj selling?
__________________
'15 FRS - GLTC spec
YouTube channel race vids: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClU...phsppnA/videos

prandelia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 10:17 AM   #76
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,693
Thanks: 4,847
Thanked 4,372 Times in 2,105 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by prandelia View Post
that's my point. Are the pivots in this kit (http://denstoj.com.au/retainer-kit/) the same as in the '17+ cars, or the 13-14 cars?

If these OE pivots changed spec between 13-14, 15, and 17+ cars, then which pivots is Denstoj selling?
They are not selling the pivots, you have to send them in to be modified. As far as I am aware the only change in pivots is the size of the oiling hole. The old part number supersedes to the newest last I checked. The early engines had different sized oil holes in each head. The newer ones have the same in both sides.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
solidsnake11 (10-01-2020)
Old 09-30-2020, 09:19 PM   #77
prandelia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Drives: 2015 FRS
Location: KY
Posts: 126
Thanks: 0
Thanked 99 Times in 58 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
They are not selling the pivots, you have to send them in to be modified. As far as I am aware the only change in pivots is the size of the oiling hole. The old part number supersedes to the newest last I checked. The early engines had different sized oil holes in each head. The newer ones have the same in both sides.
hmm, doesn't read that way to me. It would be terribly inconvenient to have to ship off your pivots to Australia and then wait to receive them back, before you can start building your motor back. That said, it would be the sure-fire way to ensure you get your same exact parts back.

I read it as their "kit" provides you with everything, and once you pull out your old pivots, to send them back to them as core returns. That's usually how a core refund works.

Regardless, I'm shocked nobody here in the USA has come up with a solution like this. I like this alot better than the AWD tuning rocker stopper solution.
__________________
'15 FRS - GLTC spec
YouTube channel race vids: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClU...phsppnA/videos

prandelia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 10:05 PM   #78
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,693
Thanks: 4,847
Thanked 4,372 Times in 2,105 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by prandelia View Post
hmm, doesn't read that way to me. It would be terribly inconvenient to have to ship off your pivots to Australia and then wait to receive them back, before you can start building your motor back. That said, it would be the sure-fire way to ensure you get your same exact parts back.

I read it as their "kit" provides you with everything, and once you pull out your old pivots, to send them back to them as core returns. That's usually how a core refund works.

Regardless, I'm shocked nobody here in the USA has come up with a solution like this. I like this alot better than the AWD tuning rocker stopper solution.

I could be wrong. Won’t be the first time.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 11:20 PM   #79
DarkPira7e
No, my car doesn't run
 
DarkPira7e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,493
Thanks: 1,631
Thanked 2,087 Times in 1,139 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I could be wrong. Won’t be the first time.
The way it's explained on their website is that they ship everything to you and they refund you a core charge upon receipt of your parts, unless it's changed since I saw it
DarkPira7e is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DarkPira7e For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (09-30-2020)
Old 09-30-2020, 11:22 PM   #80
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,693
Thanks: 4,847
Thanked 4,372 Times in 2,105 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
The way it's explained on their website is that they ship everything to you and they refund you a core charge upon receipt of your parts, unless it's changed since I saw it
I don't think I like that. I would rather have the new pivots, should improve oil pressure.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (09-30-2020)
Old 09-30-2020, 11:24 PM   #81
DarkPira7e
No, my car doesn't run
 
DarkPira7e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,493
Thanks: 1,631
Thanked 2,087 Times in 1,139 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I don't think I like that. I would rather have the new pivots, should improve oil pressure.
Yeah it's not clear if you're getting someone else's stuff straight up or if they're reconditioned somehow? That's a great question actually
DarkPira7e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 11:28 PM   #82
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,693
Thanks: 4,847
Thanked 4,372 Times in 2,105 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
Yeah it's not clear if you're getting someone else's stuff straight up or if they're reconditioned somehow? That's a great question actually
I think it just made more sense in my head you would send them pivots because of that.

I get confused easily
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 11:47 PM   #83
soundman98
threadwrecker
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 brz limited
Location: chicagolandia
Posts: 5,083
Thanks: 12,737
Thanked 5,270 Times in 2,781 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
i understood that the pivots are specially modified by them, which was the reasoning for the core and the replacement pivots.

but if the update pivots have a deeper divot and better oiling, i'd rather get the newer pivots than someone's old modded shallow pivots, because the main issue that even needs these retainers is the shallow divot pivots.
__________________
my '14 brz limited "the return to normal" (or is it?)
led mods-10%(planning/designing/sitting on hands)audio mods-99%(done is never done)

hidplanet build log
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2020, 10:26 PM   #84
solidsnake11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Drives: brz
Location: nc
Posts: 1,178
Thanks: 423
Thanked 707 Times in 424 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I don't think I like that. I would rather have the new pivots, should improve oil pressure.
This is just a theory, I think the pivot moves up to take up the lash clearance when the valve is closed. A smaller hole would have more pressure and slower collapse rate. All just theory.
or
Maybe they were just trying to raise overall oil pressure.
solidsnake11 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to solidsnake11 For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (10-02-2020), solidONE (10-07-2020)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trans retainer cover Jcas Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 0 04-29-2019 04:24 PM
WTB: spare wheel retainer screw Pat Want-To-Buy Requests 4 04-06-2016 12:57 PM
Pop-Screw Retainer Size? FR-S Matt Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 2 01-20-2013 10:48 AM
big black plastic retainer poormans_LFA Subaru BRZ General Forum 66 02-11-2012 02:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.