(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Production of the BRZ ending was expected and not surprising - had to happen sometime soon since the mkI Twin is at end of model life. But for some reason the clickbaits are resurrecting the rumour of a turbo FA24 with 250HP for the mkII... I thought they’d all switched over to reporting a NA FA24 with 217HP just a few weeks ago (by far the more likely rumour IMO)?

It has gone back and forth. Depending on the day of the week, if you walk by a glass door in either Subaru's or Toyota's design center, you might have seen testing being done on both configuration.

But an NA 2.4/2.5 would likely make at least 217 at the low end, so it isn't so ridiculous to use that as a starting point. But for the turbo... with how Subaru routes the turbo under the engine and puts the intercooler on top they simply don't work in our cars, which is why I don't think people should get their hopes up. People ignored that tid-bit when asking why Subaru wouldn't just put the WRX motor in the twins.



I don't know how much bigger the 2.4 is, but if the 2.0 won't fit, I doubt the 2.4 would. I also don't see Subaru putting in the money to redesign an entire engine for a such a low volume, low margin product.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

It has gone back and forth. Depending on the day of the week, if you walk by a glass door in either Subaru's or Toyota's design center, you might have seen testing being done on both configuration.

But an NA 2.4/2.5 would likely make at least 217 at the low end, so it isn't so ridiculous to use that as a starting point. But for the turbo... with how Subaru routes the turbo under the engine and puts the intercooler on top they simply don't work in our cars, which is why I don't think people should get their hopes up. People ignored that tid-bit when asking why Subaru wouldn't just put the WRX motor in the twins.



I don't know how much bigger the 2.4 is, but if the 2.0 won't fit, I doubt the 2.4 would. I also don't see Subaru putting in the money to redesign an entire engine for a such a low volume, low margin product.

If they bin the TMIC for a FMIC there is heaps of room.

There was no clearance issues with my AVO setup.

The task isn't hard, it's more about rhe bottom dollar and it's price point on the dealer floor.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

If they bin the TMIC for a FMIC there is heaps of room.

There was no clearance issues with my AVO setup.

The task isn't hard, it's more about rhe bottom dollar and it's price point on the dealer floor.

And crash, milage and emissions requirements.
Canada would not let the Evo into the country until the X series since the turbo And intercooler locations on the previous models made it fail the crash test here.
The engineering may not be “hard to do” but they have restrictions to work within that make it impractical at any cost.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

And crash, milage and emissions requirements.
Canada would not let the Evo into the country until the X series since the turbo And intercooler locations on the previous models made it fail the crash test here.
The engineering may not be “hard to do” but they have restrictions to work within that make it impractical at any cost.

I don't know, VAG and other Euro's do it.

Hell, they could side mount it like the old Skylines and add some vents that actually vent.

That is "IF" there is a Gen 2.

My broker, who makes his living selling new cars and has eyes and ears everywhere said he hasn't heard anything apart from all manufacturers having a big think about upcoming models.

Everyone is planning for the repercussions of this apocalypse.

He did say that the smaller SUV market is their main focus at the moment, and that I should accept the fact that I'm going to most likely own a hybrid sooner rather than later.

Meh, I'm retiring soon, maybe I'll just buy a old sports car to play with and fix up, and leave the new cars to the Mrs and kids.

Talking about the apocalypse, I'm currently in self quarantine waiting for my Covid test screening to come back, man that was an uncomfortable thing to get done, 2 x long cotton bud stick things jammed up my nose and one down my throat, then they sucked out a heap of blood to test for every cold and flu known to man.

Results will be in tomorrow around lunch time, until then it's all about googles, cars, bikes and netflix.

We are still really lucky here, most people are complying with the restrictions, with only a few idiots to deal with not complying and putting others at risk.

How is "Canadia" going?, over the border in the US it looks bad from the news feeds, it seems that not alot of people are taking it really seriously, the numbers of infected and deaths back this up. Our Victorian cousins are taking a big hit, borders are closed, restrictions and curfews are in place.

Complying isn't hard, but it seems some people are self centered and/or stupid, which in the end just drags this out and stops the manufacturers building me my little RWD manual sports coupe with a high reving inline 4......LOL.....with a turbo......🤪

[mazeroni]

Also not just the extra $3K+ to the base price of the car for engine, but everything else would need to be durable to handle 250-300 torque. So our 2,800 pound car balloons to becomes 3,100-ish and starts at $32-34K before options. Just doesn't make sense, unless Toyota/ Subaru figured out a way to get the build cost way down. But none of that addresses the Supra 2.0 which I can't see Toyota putting at risk with an 86 that is equal or faster for less money.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Also not just the extra $3K+ to the base price of the car for engine, but everything else would need to be durable to handle 250-300 torque. So our 2,800 pound car balloons to becomes 3,100-ish and starts at $32-34K before options. Just doesn't make sense, unless Toyota/ Subaru figured out a way to get the build cost way down. But none of that addresses the Supra 2.0 which I can't see Toyota putting at risk with an 86 that is equal or faster for less money.

Don't you start bringing common sense to this thread 🦄

[fitcious]

I have a feeling it will be 2.4L non turbo with 230-240hp.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Also not just the extra $3K+ to the base price of the car for engine, but everything else would need to be durable to handle 250-300 torque. ....

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Don't you start bringing common sense to this thread 🦄

Sounds like a good time to repost this, which demonstrates perfectly what OEMs have to consider when "just adding a turbo"...

[Ernest72]

Let’s be honest. It’s the aftermarket that gives us what we want. The OEMs have too many restrictions. You need to stretch/break laws to get what we want. So the consumer can do that with relatively little issues depending on your state. There are so many work arounds that an OEM cannot do.

Personally, I don’t believe I will ever buy a car and not modify it to fit my needs or wants, assuming I have the money to do so.

Also waiting for an OEM to give you everything you want at a twin price point is not realistic. Too many compromises.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Let’s be honest. It’s the aftermarket that gives us what we want. The OEMs have too many restrictions. You need to stretch/break laws to get what we want. So the consumer can do that with relatively little issues depending on your state. There are so many work arounds that an OEM cannot do.

Personally, I don’t believe I will ever buy a car and not modify it to fit my needs or wants, assuming I have the money to do so.

Also waiting for an OEM to give you everything you want at a twin price point is not realistic. Too many compromises.

I agree, I would prefer buying a twin at the current performance and price level and modify it myself again.

[Lightened]

Don't want to modify a great handling affordable lightweight sports car? - It's good as is.

Like all motor but need more ommphff? - Quality header + tune. Boom.

Love boost? - If only someone made turbo kits and superchargers for these. Oh wait...

Endless upgrade options for every part of the car? - Yes

Generous secondary economy for parts manufacturing? - Done


Same blueprint for next gen.

Thank you Subaru & Toyota

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Lightened

Don't want to modify a great handling affordable lightweight sports car? - It's good as is.

Like all motor but need more ummphff? - Quality header + tune. Boom.

Love boost? - If only someone made turbo kits and superchargers for these. Oh wait...

Endless upgrade options for every part of the car? - Yes

Generous secondary economy for parts manufacturing? - Done


Same blueprint for next gen.

Thank you Subaru & Toyota

but but all of that could have been done RIGHT from the factory.....and cost less in the process...because...internet logics!

[Vides990]

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/180273

This is definitely an interesting read on subaru today, best car does seem a little confused though haha

[nextcar]

Playing Devil's advocate...

Originally Posted by Lightened

Don't want to modify a great handling affordable lightweight sports car? - It's good as is.

Probably 90% of all owners

Like all motor but need more ummphff? - Quality header + tune. Boom.

Unless California

Love boost? - If only someone made turbo kits and superchargers for these. Oh wait...

A risky proposition - this is a high compression engine already and the internals are "cost optimized". As the old Porsche add shows, to do it right is a bit more than slap it on and go...

Endless upgrade options for every part of the car? - Yes

Generous secondary economy for parts manufacturing? - Done


Same blueprint for next gen.

Thank you Subaru & Toyota

Don't get me wrong; I like the base car and think it is fine for the vast majority of buyers...

What I would like is the OPTION for a bit more power that is a fully engineered solution with a factory warranty, no issues getting serviced anywhere, and passes emission testing. Think STi and WRX, not replacing but complementing. Edelbrock and a few others come close with their kits, but as someone that has gone through J02 (mandated by state for registration) I would be pissed to have to return to stock for the recall...

Yes, I realize they would not sell a large number of these compared to the base model, and it has probably been "spreadsheeted" to death for return on investment...

But it is what I WANT and would buy... even if the price overlapped the low end Supra (which I have no desire to own)