follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 1st Gens: Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ > Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum

Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum The place to start for the Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 | GT86


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-20-2024, 09:29 AM   #1
Mathx68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Drives: Toyota gt86 2012
Location: France
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Steering wheel not straight

Hello everyone,

Sorry to bother i just wanted your opinion on something that happened to me.
After multiple back and forth with the control center to get my technical inspection and replacing multiple parts on the front left side of the car (tie rods inner and outer ) the workshop that did the inner one told me it's actually the inner ball joint on the control arm that needs replacement. So i did that with my father and we took out the control arm to replace it and reinstall.
And now it appears that my steering wheel isn't aligned with the wheels anymore when i go straight forward (slightly to the left when I'm going straight forwards), Should i redo an alignment from the workshop even though they did one when they changed the inner tie rod ?
Can it be only because we changed one part from the control arm that it changed the whole alignment they did prior to that ?
Or can it be easily fixed at home ?

Thanks for everyone reading and answering,


Car is a Gt86 from 2012 imported from Germany to France if that is important to say.
Mathx68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2024, 11:42 AM   #2
Ohio Enthusiast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 992
Thanks: 1,429
Thanked 839 Times in 482 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Yes, touching suspension components almost always changes the alignment, especially if things were replaced (but sometimes it's enough to loosen bolts and tighten them again for things to shift). Toe in particular is very sensitive to even minor changes.

As a DIY, since you only touched one side in the front, you can correct the toe "blind" until the steering wheel is straight when the car is going straight (this assumes that the rest of the alignment was correct before you touched the car, and that you only touched one front corner (thrust angle due to incorrect rear toe is much harder to test for on the road)).

If you are working on the left front, and the car pulls to the left when the steering wheel is straight, it means that the left front is toed-out. You need to toe it in a little. Since our cars have the tie rod connected to the back of the knuckle, you need to extend the tie rod (pushing the back of the wheel out and pulling the front of the wheel in) - loosen the jam nut and turn the tie rod counterclockwise. Do this in extremely small increments, less than a 1/4 of a turn at a time; tighten the jam nut and take the car for a drive to check how it is progressing. Ideally take notes on how much you are turning the tie rod so you can know how much to go back if you overshoot the correction. You can do this with the car on the ground by reaching from behind the front wheel. I lay parallel to the car with my head towards the back. Loosening the jam nut for the first time is the hardest part here, as there's not a lot of room to swing a wrench and it's an awkward position to apply force. You might want to jack the front of the car just to loosen the jam nut, and don't tighten it all the way when you are test driving (but do tighten it fully once you're happy with the steering wheel position).

If you're not comfortable with doing that, an alignment at a shop would be the best bet, but note that sometimes they don't get the steering wheel straight either so choose a good shop (or one that will be okay with you coming back and complaining about the steering wheel not being straight and actually fixing it).
Ohio Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2024, 01:06 PM   #3
Mathx68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Drives: Toyota gt86 2012
Location: France
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
A colleague of my father told us it could be due to the control arm being tightened when the front of the car was in the air and it should be done when it's under the cars weight. Could that have an impact too ?

And technically if i put my steering wheel straight the car would go slightly to the right and not left.
Mathx68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2024, 01:52 PM   #4
Ohio Enthusiast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 992
Thanks: 1,429
Thanked 839 Times in 482 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Yes, the rear bushing needs to be tightened with the control arm at static height (i.e. loaded as if the car is on the ground); for the front bushing it shouldn't matter (due to it's orientation). Will that affect toe? I honestly doubt it. It might impact ride height a little bit, which will impact toe even less. It's more to avoid constant load on the bushing from being twisted and for the bushing to provide the right amount of deflection it was designed for (it acts like a spring, and if it's partially loaded because it's twisted it will behave differently).

If you share exactly what work you did since the previous alignment we can help determine if toe change is reasonable to expect or not.

If the car goes right, then the front left is toed in and you need to toe it out a little by decreasing the length of the tie rod (rotating it clockwise).
Ohio Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2024, 06:40 AM   #5
Mathx68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Drives: Toyota gt86 2012
Location: France
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
So the first things we did was replace the outer tie rods and the end links since the guy told me it was those that made my tire wobble a bit. Went there again and he told me "no i never said that, it's the inner tie rod you need to change" So i went to the shop to make them replace the front left inner tie rod and do an alignment. And they where the ones telling me it's the inner ball joint that need to be replaced and that's what we changed with my father, but we did only the left side.
Mathx68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2024, 08:23 AM   #6
Ohio Enthusiast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 992
Thanks: 1,429
Thanked 839 Times in 482 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathx68 View Post
it's the inner ball joint that need to be replaced and that's what we changed with my father, but we did only the left side.
What's an inner ball joint? The control arm only has one ball joint. If you mean that one, did you press it out and press in a new one? Or did you replace the whole control arm?
Ohio Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2024, 09:37 AM   #7
Mathx68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Drives: Toyota gt86 2012
Location: France
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Yeah that one ! we pressed it out and put a new one in place but we had to take the control arm off since there was no room to work with.
Mathx68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2024, 05:21 PM   #8
fminicooper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Drives: FRS Hot Lava
Location: Houston
Posts: 123
Thanks: 98
Thanked 60 Times in 39 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast View Post
Yes, the rear bushing needs to be tightened with the control arm at static height (i.e. loaded as if the car is on the ground); for the front bushing it shouldn't matter (due to it's orientation). Will that affect toe? I honestly doubt it. It might impact ride height a little bit, which will impact toe even less. It's more to avoid constant load on the bushing from being twisted and for the bushing to provide the right amount of deflection it was designed for (it acts like a spring, and if it's partially loaded because it's twisted it will behave differently).

If you share exactly what work you did since the previous alignment we can help determine if toe change is reasonable to expect or not.

If the car goes right, then the front left is toed in and you need to toe it out a little by decreasing the length of the tie rod (rotating it clockwise).
I suspect I might be facing the same issue without realizing it.
Could you clarify your description? What do you mean by 'the rear bushing needs to be tightened,' and which specific rear bushing are you referring to?

Thank you in advance for your clarification. Your post has been an eye-opener for me.
I have changed the bushing of the front control arm. Base on your coments, I should loose the control arm and re-tighten while the car is on the ground.
fminicooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2024, 05:35 PM   #9
Ohio Enthusiast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 992
Thanks: 1,429
Thanked 839 Times in 482 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
#1 is the ball joint that is connected to the steering knuckle.
#2 and #3 are the bushings that are connected to the car.
Bushing #2 gets locked down when tightened on its steel core. Once tightened, the steel core doesn't rotate, instead the rubber around it twists to allow the control arm to pivot up and down at the ball joint side. If you tighten this bushing with the control arm not at ride height, the rubber will be twisted when the car is on the ground, which will reduce the life span of the bushing and will make it behave in a different way than designed.

Since it's a real pain to tighten the bushing bolt with the car on the ground, I jack up on the steering knuckle until it's at the same position as when the suspension is loaded. You can measure the distance between the middle of the wheel to the fender when the car is on the ground, and jack the steering knuckle until it measures the same. You'd need to disconnect the sway bar, otherwise both sides will start rising (or just jack both sides at the same time). This gets it close enough for me, but ideally it should be done on a 4 post lift like they have in alignment shops (where the car is in the air but resting on its wheels, with plenty of space under it to reach the bolts on the suspension. Another alternative is to use hub stands - special stands that replace the wheel to allow the suspension to be loaded but still allows access to the suspensions components and fasteners.
Attached Images
 
Ohio Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ohio Enthusiast For This Useful Post:
bcj (11-22-2024), Ultramaroon (11-22-2024)
Old 11-23-2024, 08:54 AM   #10
Mathx68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Drives: Toyota gt86 2012
Location: France
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks for the explanation, once it starts getting warm again outside , i will try my best to do it and if it's still not corrected I'll probably send it to a shop. We got like 20cm snow recently so kind of not great for outdoor car work..
Mathx68 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
alignment, control arm, steering wheel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Retaining steering wheel controls w/ aftermarket steering wheel on +17 BRZ/86 DDavid Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 8 04-22-2021 06:37 AM
Daily Driver: Do you get wheel alignment after X miles, X years, or when not straight btan219 Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack 10 03-23-2018 01:08 AM
Blue carbon steering wheel and steering wheel trim... installed! Pointmutation Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 15 02-07-2017 12:20 AM
WTB after market steering wheel set up . Steering wheel, hub and quick release. Vroomin86 Want-To-Buy Requests 1 11-05-2015 07:44 PM
FS: Works bell steering wheel hub, buddy club seat rail, momo steering wheel in Socal mtsui Interior Parts (Incl. Lighting) 5 08-11-2015 01:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.