New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Yeah that is entirely a CUV silhouette. It is cartoonishly tall.

Keep in mind they have to move the battery pack away from the road to avoid debris, speed bumps, or anything that could puncture it. While it does look a bit exaggerated for demonstration purposes, given that it is a universal platform to serve a great many vehicles, you probably won't see a more dedicated "sports car" EV platform varient for a long time.

Don't expect ZL1 or C8 ground clearance for a long time.



It will probaby be similar to the Mach-E, but a 2 door.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by mav1178

what the article fails to mention is that GM's primary reason for this is driven by their number 1 market: China.

China's vehicle market is going electric much faster than the rest of the world, and to not go EV is to lose out on the largest consumer market to other brands.

True, but that alone wouldn't stop them from making ICEs; they would still produce ICEs for other markets. They see the writing on the wall. California, China, UK and other parts of Europe, etc are all on board. That doesn't leave a whole lot of major markets left. Still, GM and other companies have subsidiaries in cheaper markets where an ICE could still be used like Malaysia or Thailand, but this sounds like a global decision. It could be profit driven like the article mentions, but I think it could also be entirely possible that GM wants to be apart of the solution to this global problem.

The other thing is that these companies need a new focus. The horsepower wars are getting so ridiculous that there needs to be a new focus to reign in the power, or rather, where do you go from a 700+hp sports coupe? There are engineering limits on cooling, reliability, fuel economy, weight, etc with ICEs. Going EV could reset and restart the bar. At one point in time, Japanese cars had a gentlemen's agreement on 280hp or something, and now, we may see an agreement to move past the latest horsepower wars and move onto something different.

https://www.wired.com/2015/05/porsch...orsepower-war/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Keep in mind they have to move the battery pack away from the road to avoid debris, speed bumps, or anything that could puncture it. While it does look a bit exaggerated for demonstration purposes, given that it is a universal platform to serve a great many vehicles, you probably won't see a more dedicated "sports car" EV platform varient for a long time.

Don't expect ZL1 or C8 ground clearance for a long time.

It will probably be similar to the Mach-E, but a 2 door.

The Ford Mach-E has a ground clearance of 5.7'', and the Mustang has a ground clearance of 5.3'', and the Tesla Model S has a ground clearance of 4.6'', so ground clearance isn't the issue.

It depends on the type and configuration of their battery packs. Some manufactures are using larger pouches, so their battery packs are taller, which can raise the seat height. Look at the Model 3 or Model S, and you can see that the vehicle doesn't need to look like a crossover because it has a battery pack, nor does the seating position need to be high in the air.

The Mach-E has a crossover look because that is what they wanted to make because crossovers sell the most.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Keep in mind they have to move the battery pack away from the road to avoid debris, speed bumps, or anything that could puncture it.

are you implying that suspending a tank of a flammable liquid underneath a vehicle in a 1/8" thick plastic tub is less problematic to road hazards?

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The other thing is that these companies need a new focus. The horsepower wars are getting so ridiculous that there needs to be a new focus to reign in the power, or rather, where do you go from a 700+hp sports coupe? There are engineering limits on cooling, reliability, fuel economy, weight, etc with ICEs. Going EV could reset and restart the bar. At one point in time, Japanese cars had a gentlemen's agreement on 280hp or something, and now, we may see an agreement to move past the latest horsepower wars and move onto something different.

Apparently to seeing how many CUVs you can ram down your customers' throat if you are Ford...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Apparently to seeing how many CUVs you can ram down your customers' throat if you are Ford...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...ans-1525369304

Are they ramming CUVs or are we wanting CUVs? Is it a push or pull situation? That is the question.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...ans-1525369304

Are they ramming CUVs or are we wanting CUVs? Is it a push or pull situation? That is the question.

they did say their cars weren't selling, but then ford has never been known to make the most quality cars anyways. even here, half the guy's considering a mustang have to keep reminding themselves that it's either got a turbo, or a v8 to feel that it's the better purchase.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by soundman98

are you implying that suspending a tank of a flammable liquid underneath a vehicle in a 1/8" thick plastic tub is less problematic to road hazards?

Yes, infinitely.

If I puncture my gas tank nothing happens except oil spills out over the road and eventually evaporates and we replace the gas tank.

If I puncture a car's battery pack, at best there is no fire but the entire car would be totaled because you can't simply replace the battery pack, and at worst the entire car catches fire.

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by soundman98

they did say their cars weren't selling, but then ford has never been known to make the most quality cars anyways. even here, half the guy's considering a mustang have to keep reminding themselves that it's either got a turbo, or a v8 to feel that it's the better purchase.

Ford Fusion was a success on the category. Fiesta also (in Europe). Focus was a bummer, failed in China and got a bad rep.
Not a reason to drop all. The reason may be different, including regulations (e.g. CAFE), profits, cusromwr demand, shifting of CEOs, new direction...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Yes, infinitely.

If I puncture my gas tank nothing happens except oil spills out over the road and eventually evaporates and we replace the gas tank.

If I puncture a car's battery pack, at best there is no fire but the entire car would be totaled because you can't simply replace the battery pack, and at worst the entire car catches fire.

This can happen, but it doesn't really happen at any rate to be a real concern. Like I posted above, ground clearance is fairly low. In fact, many vehicles come from the factory with really low ground clearance. There are cars like the C8 Corvette that will remember your preferences, so when you come to a particular area, it will automatically raise the car.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...nt-lift-video/

Fires are much more common with ICEs than EVs. The incidents typically don't happen from tank punctures, but that is possible. Typically it happens when a fuel line, injector, regulator, etc leaks or breaks, and the gas hits the exhaust pipe and starts a fire. This happens with oil leaks too of course. The GT350 had a recall because several cars caught on fire from the oil filter not sealing well enough. Then there are the physical damages from a crash or catastrophic engine failure that can cause a hole in the crank case or a leak, which can start a fire.

You are correct that a serious impact to the bottom of the car will likely result in more expensive damage, but this is very rare. The battery area under an EV is also bigger than say the area under an ICE vehicle where an object could puncture the oil pan that could cause engine failure, so there is a greater chance of an impact with an EV. Yet, the under trays of EVs are very thick. Some EVs like Ford's Mach-E has individual sections that can be changed out if one got damaged.



On the newest Teslas, the batteries will be integrated into the floor like how some engines in motorbikes or race cars become integral components of the chassis, so removing the battery may not be as easy or possible. Initially they planned to design the car, so the batteries could be swapped, and while other companies like Nio are providing that service, Tesla is moving away from that model because it seems less necessary. But, previously, Teslas could have their battery packs removed and replaced, which was very common, and like a broken engine, they could be recycled and harvested for parts and materials. Most wrecked Teslas showed little to no major damage to the battery packs. Nio has performed over 500,000 battery swaps so far using these swapping stations:

Tesla battery pack:



Nio swapping station:

[Dadhawk]

Speaking of Tesla, they were just forced to recall 135,000 vehicles because the center tablet may fail. Tesla refused to voluntarily recall them because they didn't think the failure was a safety issue, even though some systems, like the backup camera and the window defrost systems are controlled by it.

[Irace86.2.0]

Good video breakdown:

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Good video breakdown:

Agreed, good video. I like his balanced approach to the whole subject.

Of course, I may like him because he sounds like a Muppet.

Only thing, I think he missed the point that it's not quite that straight forward. Charging at night also makes use of electricity production that is now "lost". That is why, for example, my EMC (electric co-op) let's you charge a car for free if you do it between certain hours (up to 400kWh per month).

The video itself is a bit weird though. This would have been better done in the studio similar to his video on the CT5-V Blackwing. The driving and random shots of Hummer EVs, Mach-Es, etc were distracting.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Agreed, good video. I like his balanced approach to the whole subject.

Of course, I may like him because he sounds like a Muppet.

Only think I saw is I think he missed the point that it's not quite that straight forward. Charging at night also makes use of electricity production that is now "lost". That is why, for example, my EMC (electric co-op) let's you charge a car for free if you do it between certain hours (up to 400kWh per month).

The video itself is a bit weird though. This would have been better done in the studio similar to his video on the CT5-V Blackwing. The driving and random shots of Hummer EVs, Mach-Es, etc were distracting.[URL]

I’m missing your point when you say lost.