09-27-2013, 11:56 AM | #631 | ||
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09-27-2013, 12:05 PM | #632 |
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You said the 2000 model year S2000 was $40k. It wasn't. The most recent non-CR S2000 was $35k in 2009. The CR was a special model aimed at a very small segment of an already limited portion of the market, I don't know why you'd even compare it other than to try to exaggerate the expensiveness of the S2000.
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09-27-2013, 12:33 PM | #633 | |
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I used 2000 to accentuate the price difference between a car produced new in 2000 versus another new car produced in 2012. Use whatever figure makes you comfortable, the point is the same. The S2K was and is a much more expensive car to produce. Now excuse me, I'm going to go back to the new Miata versus used Cayman S thread now. Thx guys. |
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09-27-2013, 12:47 PM | #634 | |||||
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09-27-2013, 01:06 PM | #635 | |
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09-27-2013, 01:09 PM | #636 | |
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The Griffon GT86 can be replicated... for about 120k + a car. Apples to oranges. I'm talking a S2k with a $800 bolt-on wing, and nothing more. |
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09-27-2013, 01:12 PM | #637 | |
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90-120 is the "sweet spot" where the FRS/BRZ has a superior power/drag ratio over the s2k. The published number, IIRC, was zero lift on the BRZ with both the "diffuser" and wing. It also reduces Cd by 0.02. |
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09-27-2013, 01:14 PM | #638 | |
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And Honda lost money on every S2k they sold. Its obviously over-engineered (good) and an has more money invested in nearly every part of the car from the engine to the suspension. IMHO It did weigh too much for a pure" sports car roadster." I think the base Elise did every thing the S2k did, better. And in 2005 they were priced very close. The S2k is not a Gran Tourer. The FRS is a GT in the spirit of GTs before they became 4k lb behemoths but with some roadster like traits. The FRS just doesn't have the go-cart feel of a true sports car like the Elise or Toyotas sports car the (MRS.) But it does great on sweeping highways and interstates. I'd much rather take a 10 hour drive on the interstate with the FRS than an S2k or Elise. For a little GT it has very sports car like handling on flat roads/tracks. But driving on really twisty hilly roads it becomes apparent that the handling isn't roadster like, I'm not the only one to report a rear wheel lift on a tight downhill turn. I don't think track guys would ever notice this. But this car is not a top class handling car on turns with sharp elevation changes . It may just be the silly soft springs upfront, it may just need better struts. A guess the point is we are comparing apples and oranges.
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09-27-2013, 01:42 PM | #639 | |||
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FWIW, I modded my RX-7 spreadsheet model for the FR-S (170rwhp, 0.29 cd, 2950 lb) and for the S2000 (200rwhp, 0.33 cd, 3000 lb.). Model predicts 14.9@96mph for the FR-S, 14.1@101mph for the S2000, so it's at least in the ballpark. I'm getting a max speed of the FR-S of 155mph, and 158mph for the S2000. At 90mph, FR-S is accelerating at 5.5 ft/s^2, S2000 at 6.5 ft/s^2. Advantage: S2000 At 120mph, FR-S = 2.9 ft/s^2, S2000 = 3.4 ft/s^2. Advantage: still S2000. If the FR-S's aero drag advantage were significant enough that it had and advantage anywhere, it would be at higher speeds and it would have a higher top speed. Quote:
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09-27-2013, 01:58 PM | #640 | |
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Our real world testing indicates the FR-S is abnormally fast 90-120, both via closed course drag racing, as well as datalogs from hundreds of runs at those speeds. I haven't done the actual math, although I'm familiar with the equations, as our anecdotal evidence is very strong... |
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09-27-2013, 02:05 PM | #641 | ||
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Note that I only knocked down the horsepower level by a straight factor from my RX-7 model, I didn't take the time to update gear ratios. It should still be a pretty good approximation (as the near dead-on 1/4-mile predictions indicate). Quote:
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09-27-2013, 02:14 PM | #642 |
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Yes. . . but in all reality i sold my s2000 cause i couldnt stand how rough it was as it was my daily. . . I was about to buy a hot hatch before my s2000 cause of practicality and fun factor but the major drawback was FF. . the brz/frs is the car of my dreams cause it does everything a normal car can do and yet i can have fun! in coupe shape with decent praticality and backseats. . You can argue over the frs/brz or s2000 being the better performing car but you can deny the fact that the FRS/BRZ is the "better car"
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09-27-2013, 02:18 PM | #643 |
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For one datapoint, at C&D's Lightning Lap, here are the front straight entry & peak speeds for both cars:
S2000CR: 86.3 mph entry, 121.5 mph peak BRZ: 87.0 mph entry, 116.6 mph peak I haven't seen CSG's data, but it does look like the S2000 CR out-accelerates the BRZ down the front straight in C&D's test from basically 85-120 mph. If I had to guess, I think the BRZ claws back time vs. the S2000 in the corners. If you look at the C&D test data, you can see the BRZ has faster cornering speeds in some sectors (2, 3, 5), and I think on equal tires, you would see that more clearly and in more sectors. Just my guess though. http://www.caranddriver.com/features...r-times-page-8 http://virnow.com/files/2012/09/Car-...ning-Lap-3.pdf
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09-27-2013, 02:33 PM | #644 | |
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