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Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) Everything related to the mechanical maintenance of the FR-S and BRZ |
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03-31-2021, 10:06 AM | #15 |
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So to be clear it does not specify or list 5w-30 is a recommended spec?
it says a higher oil (doesn't specify what weight) can be used in extreme situations like tracking. Last time i checked daily driving isn't extreme. Also that entire section is an example explaining what oil weight is/means not necessarily specific to the vehicle either. In the section before that, that is specific to the vehicle it clearly states. recommended viscosity 0w-20 (no other weight listed as recommended such as 5w-30) and states If 0w-20 is not available 5w-20 may be used (doesn't say 5w-30), but MUST be replaced with 0W-20 on the next oil change (indicating its not ideal but an alternative in a pinch). |
03-31-2021, 10:07 AM | #16 |
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Go back to the recommended weight, but in addition, change from ILSAC GF-5 to ILSAC GF-6 for further protection.
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03-31-2021, 10:23 AM | #17 |
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03-31-2021, 10:31 AM | #18 | |
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Otherwise, there is no big deal in running 5w-30 for us, the oil is not different enough in thickness to cause any damage. Though I have no proof of this, you can certainly read into the hundreds, or even thousands of people on this forum who run higher weight oils without issues (I am referring to the moderate ones such as 5w-30 or 0w-40, etc). Besides, the argument here is not what specific oil weight he should choose, but rather that 15w-50 is WAY beyond any oil spec he should be running. |
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03-31-2021, 11:04 AM | #19 | |
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As Rtoyo posted, the manuals from non-US vehicles recommend various weights up to 10w-40 depending on use case. The engines are the same. 15w-50 is a way bit heavy for much use this side of track days in Arizona during the summer, but anyone that understands oil rating knows that 0w, 5w, or even 10w are completely fine depending on what type of “Winter” the vehicle is operated in. As for the operating weight, 20 is the general recommendation in modern vehicles to improve fuel efficiency and reduce emissions, but the use case and conditions are going to dictate whether 30+ are better choices. Also remember the manual is written for the lowest common denominator, and in the US the low is pretty low (we’ve all seen the idiotic product warning labels), so telling people to use one specific oil is easier that expecting people to make a properly informed decision. |
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03-31-2021, 12:02 PM | #20 | |
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03-31-2021, 04:27 PM | #21 |
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I don’t speak Japanese nor want to take that single little picture out of context.
The us manuals are very specific to what they say. The other manual you linked I believe is from either older year cars and/or other markets still does not say 5w-30 is recommended. It still recommends 0w-20 and still says if unavailable then 5w-30 (later changed to 5w-20) can be used by you must fill with 0w-20 the next oil change. Also now that i look more into why would they deliberately go out of there way to change the user manual from 5w-30 to 5w-20 as a less than ideal but still usable backup option? Did they get futher data and testing indicating they where wrong initially and it should have never been listed as an “option” that its actually too thick for normal applications. To me it seems like one weight (0w-20) is recommended and another weight (5w-20/30) is optional. “If it's recommended, you ought to include it if it's at all reasonable, and failure to do so will weaken your application. If something is optional, you should only include it if it will strengthen your application, or confirm an already positive impression made by other parts of your application.” I don’t believe 95% of dailies warrant the need for heavier oil. People say 5w-30 is better because it’s thicker and provides better protection, ok why not 10w-40 or 15w-50 then? Is it not thicker and therefor better? No its too thick? Ok how is that too thick but 5w-30 isn’t too thick. What dictates and decides what the optional thickened or viscosity is? Are all these people on here just chemical engineer oil analyst experts? Or are they all just repeating what everyone else says and continues the old train of thought about heavier oil weight is always better? |
04-01-2021, 07:38 AM | #22 | |
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It is not as simple as "5w-30 is better because it's thicker". It all depends on your application and driving style and whether the car is tracked and how much, etc. 5w-30 can be acceptable because of oil thickness properties at that rating are similar to that of 0w-20, and not far off. 15w-50 on the other hand has significantly different thickness properties throughout all the temperatures ranges our platform experiences. A simple search of the two different types of oils will give you their viscosities, and you could graph it out to see how they vary. In general, you are correct, there is no need for thicker oils for a DD. I was simply throwing the option of a slightly higher weight due to the fact that I don't know OP's driving style or oil temps that he see's. He also mentioned going forced induction in the near future, which will certainly be raising his oil temps. |
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04-01-2021, 11:02 AM | #23 | |
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For a pure DD the time spent below 180F for many people is probably much longer than the time spent above 200F and especially 220F+. I would rather have 0w-20 with sub 180F oil. It is probably a wash between 180-220F, and 5W-30 starts to become more advantageous 220F+ FI can raise temps sure, but should always be accompanied by an oil cooler in my opinion which would negate that for a DD. I think we are in an agreeance that in more extreme cases like tracking 5w-30 might not be a bad idea. but the vast majority of owners do not track and the vast majority of DDers are not pushing the car hard enough on the streets to warrant the switch to heavier weight oil in my opinion, especially if they have an oil cooler. I think at best the 5w-30 is no better or worse than 0W-20 in this case, and at worst it is actually doing more harm than good because of the added cold start / low temp wear. which goes back to my last post, only implement an "optional" recommendation if it will undoubtedly enhance or strengthen your application. |
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The Following User Says Thank You to 86TOYO2k17 For This Useful Post: | Dzmitry (04-01-2021) |
04-01-2021, 11:12 AM | #24 |
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Tpyota 86 AT 2013 oil consumption, pls help
If you really want to find out, do a UOA with 0W30 and another one with 0W20. I did and the 0W30 had significantly less aluminum and iron wear. I’m in a hot climate so YMMV.
Edit: 0W30 instead of 5W30 allows you to have the same cold start protection as 0W20. |
04-01-2021, 02:26 PM | #25 | |
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What was vehicle mileage at start of each test? Miles driven per change? Months between change as well? Avg ambient temp as well as oil temp when driving? Avg MPG during each test, Mostly to use as an indicator of possible driving style changes Driving style/condition? Have you switched back and forth a few times to get repeated results? Would be interesting to run 0w-20, then 0w-30, then 0w-30 again then back to 0w-20 to try to get 1 “test” per weather season, assuming you do 1 change every 6 months and drive identical mileage per. |
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04-01-2021, 02:54 PM | #26 | |
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I kept the mileage interval the same, between that and seeing a 30% drop in Al, I didn’t need more justification to stick with the 0W30 |
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04-01-2021, 03:03 PM | #27 | |
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I would also FAR rather go with 5w-30 oil rather than spend the money on an oil cooler and deal with the contrary issues of trying to get the oil up to temp (especially in the winter) and any other minor issues that can go along with one, such as leaks from mistakes, etc. Last edited by Dzmitry; 04-01-2021 at 03:21 PM. |
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04-01-2021, 03:08 PM | #28 | |
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EDIT: quick example - see link below on last page. Notice that even a 5w-20 still has better cold start protection than a 0w-30. The number on the right tends to hold fairly true for how oil behaves at hot temperatures, but the number on the left is more of a general guide for what the oil is trying to shoot for so to speak. Further apart, such as 0w-40, means the oil will typically have a better index, which is a good thing. https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/da...tins/g2880.pdf Last edited by Dzmitry; 04-01-2021 at 03:18 PM. |
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