Papa Toyota unhappy that the BRZ/86 feels like a Subaru - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

AnalogMan · 03-25-2021, 08:29 AM

According to these articles, apparently the powers that be at Toyota are feeling a little miffed that a car jointly developed with Subaru feels like a Subaru:

https://translate.google.com/transla...260678?prd%3D2

https://jalopnik.com/toyota-reported...ped-1846542445

This definitely falls in the category of "duh, well what did you expect"? Toyota didn't seem to mind that the Supra, a high-dollar car carrying their iconic name, feels like a BMW. Because, it is a BMW. Strange that they would give themselves a wedgie over the less expensive entry level sports car not being distinctive enough when they didn't seem to care for their legendary Supra.

It once again proves one of the oldest truisms of life: you get what you pay for. If Toyota wanted to save money and threw in with Subaru (and BMW), they shouldn't be surprised when the result tastes like a Subaru (or BMW). If they want a car to be 100% Toyota, then pony up 100% of the money.

RToyo86 · 03-25-2021, 11:35 AM

My understanding is that Subaru was left to lead development on the second gen while Toyota took a back seat approach. Versus the first gen where Toyota was more hands on.
It would make sense the 2022 would feel more Subaru. Seems odd that Toyota would be surprised by this.

Maybe it's a case of the Subaru stuff like eyesight etc being offered which won't carry over to Toyota models.

Dake · 03-25-2021, 11:37 AM

Yeah. I wonder if this is being blown out of proportion (what? who would guess?). Maybe it's something as simple as dialing the suspension tuning back to the stiffer side like the early FR-S.

But yeah, when you let another car company build your car - it will probably be more like that other company's car.

All it really does is make me more bummed we don't get the GR Yaris over here. Toyota has demonstrated what they can still do when they put their mind to a home-grown platform (and also puts to a lie their claim that they can't afford to develop their own niche product).

FR-S2GT86 · 03-25-2021, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dake

Yeah. I wonder if this is being blown out of proportion (what? who would guess?). Maybe it's something as simple as dialing the suspension tuning back to the stiffer side like the early FR-S.

But yeah, when you let another car company build your car - it will probably be more like that other company's car.

All it really does is make me more bummed we don't get the GR Yaris over here. Toyota has demonstrated what they can still do when they put their mind to a home-grown platform (and also puts to a lie their claim that they can't afford to develop their own niche product).

Ummm......the Yaris is actually a Mazda platform.

FR-S2GT86 · 03-25-2021, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RToyo86

My understanding is that Subaru was left to lead development on the second gen while Toyota took a back seat approach. Versus the first gen where Toyota was more hands on.
It would make sense the 2022 would feel more Subaru. Seems odd that Toyota would be surprised by this.

Maybe it's a case of the Subaru stuff like eyesight etc being offered which won't carry over to Toyota models.

I'm guessing they weren't sitting in the back seat of one of the twins.

FR-S2GT86 · 03-25-2021, 11:51 AM

Toyota has already proven that they can make great sports cars. Just look at their Lexus line up. All they need to do is take an LC-500, yank the V-8 and drop in an inline 6 and mate it to a manual transmission. Remove all those unnecessary bells and whistles and call it something else.

They did this with the SC300/SC400 and Soarer platform. Why can't they do this with the new Lexus cars?

Sasquachulator · 03-25-2021, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Ummm......the Yaris is actually a Mazda platform.

Only the north american market 2020 Yaris was more or less a rebadged Mazda2

The 2020 global yaris is 100% toyota.

FR-S2GT86 · 03-25-2021, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Only the north american market 2020 Yaris was more or less a rebadged Mazda2

The 2020 global yaris is 100% toyota.

I guess the rest of the world is *cough*...."lucky"....that they get another hot hatch to choose from.

KR-S · 03-25-2021, 12:20 PM

I'm not sure I'm a fan of that Jalopnik title... the way that's worded makes it sound like the second-gen 86 is too similar to Subarus in general, and not just that it was too similar to the BRZ, which is what Toyota's really concerned about according to the first article.

KR-S · 03-25-2021, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Toyota has already proven that they can make great sports cars. Just look at their Lexus line up. All they need to do is take an LC-500, yank the V-8 and drop in an inline 6 and mate it to a manual transmission. Remove all those unnecessary bells and whistles and call it something else.

They did this with the SC300/SC400 and Soarer platform. Why can't they do this with the new Lexus cars?

Because they don't have an inline 6 that is currently in production. And why would you want them to yank a 471 hp V8 out of their cars?

TommyW · 03-25-2021, 12:35 PM

They can't make it more expensive than the BRZ so that will limit what they can do. A retune for maybe 10 more hp and torque would go a long way

Tcoat · 03-25-2021, 01:16 PM

We already have two threads on this now we rehash again?

Clickbait telephone for the win.

nextcar · 03-25-2021, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat

We already have two threads on this now we rehash again?

Clickbait telephone for the win.

But... but... but... "I heard it on a .au site!"

Kittykate · 03-25-2021, 01:34 PM

It's a good thing too because if it felt like a modern Toyota it'd be fucking boring.

03-25-2021, 08:29 AM	#1
AnalogMan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Drives: 2019 BRZ Limited 6 speed Red Location: New England Posts: 498 Thanks: 740 Thanked 1,012 Times in 338 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Papa Toyota unhappy that the BRZ/86 feels like a Subaru According to these articles, apparently the powers that be at Toyota are feeling a little miffed that a car jointly developed with Subaru feels like a Subaru: https://translate.google.com/transla...260678?prd%3D2 https://jalopnik.com/toyota-reported...ped-1846542445 This definitely falls in the category of "duh, well what did you expect"? Toyota didn't seem to mind that the Supra, a high-dollar car carrying their iconic name, feels like a BMW. Because, it is a BMW. Strange that they would give themselves a wedgie over the less expensive entry level sports car not being distinctive enough when they didn't seem to care for their legendary Supra. It once again proves one of the oldest truisms of life: you get what you pay for. If Toyota wanted to save money and threw in with Subaru (and BMW), they shouldn't be surprised when the result tastes like a Subaru (or BMW). If they want a car to be 100% Toyota, then pony up 100% of the money.

03-25-2021, 01:16 PM	#12
Tcoat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Drives: 2020 Hakone Location: London, Ont Posts: 69,845 Thanks: 61,656 Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts Mentioned: 2495 Post(s) Tagged: 50 Thread(s)	We already have two threads on this now we rehash again? Clickbait telephone for the win. __________________ Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.

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03-25-2021, 11:35 AM	#2
RToyo86 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Drives: 17 Asphalt 86 Location: Ottawa Posts: 2,165 Thanks: 1,706 Thanked 2,198 Times in 1,125 Posts Mentioned: 13 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	My understanding is that Subaru was left to lead development on the second gen while Toyota took a back seat approach. Versus the first gen where Toyota was more hands on. It would make sense the 2022 would feel more Subaru. Seems odd that Toyota would be surprised by this. Maybe it's a case of the Subaru stuff like eyesight etc being offered which won't carry over to Toyota models.

03-25-2021, 11:37 AM	#3
Dake Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: FR-S Location: Houston Posts: 1,056 Thanks: 464 Thanked 819 Times in 414 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yeah. I wonder if this is being blown out of proportion (what? who would guess?). Maybe it's something as simple as dialing the suspension tuning back to the stiffer side like the early FR-S. But yeah, when you let another car company build your car - it will probably be more like that other company's car. All it really does is make me more bummed we don't get the GR Yaris over here. Toyota has demonstrated what they can still do when they put their mind to a home-grown platform (and also puts to a lie their claim that they can't afford to develop their own niche product).

03-25-2021, 12:35 PM	#11
TommyW Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Drives: '13 Whiteout Location: San Clemente Posts: 1,491 Thanks: 496 Thanked 1,242 Times in 673 Posts Mentioned: 10 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	They can't make it more expensive than the BRZ so that will limit what they can do. A retune for maybe 10 more hp and torque would go a long way

03-25-2021, 01:34 PM	#14
Kittykate Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Drives: 2015 FR-S Location: USA Posts: 118 Thanks: 24 Thanked 149 Times in 64 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	It's a good thing too because if it felt like a modern Toyota it'd be fucking boring.

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