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Old 06-12-2018, 03:40 PM   #743
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Be careful here as there was a complete redesign I believe to help with the rocker ejection that included longer valve stems, different rockers, and different pivots. I believe that was in an effort to change the rocker angle and to provide adequate oil volume to the pivot in an effort to reduce the rockers ejecting. It does appear the newer FA motors don't seem to have a consistent rocker ejection issue.

Our engine packages boost oil pressure by 20+ psi so we just aren't seeing the rockers eject on these older FA20s but I suspect "volume" to the pivot helps. On the new engines with the redesigned pivots there's no change in overall oil pressure unfortunately from what we've seen. I suspect this is the same for most as people are still sending us engines with spun rod bearings on the BRZ and also the WRX FA20DIT.
The new pivot has a smaller hole which would reduce "volume". My theory is the pivot actually works as a hydraulic lifter and a smaller hole would increase the lift and in theory reduce the slop in the rocker. I just ordered a single pivot so I can get it in my hand and do some measurements.

Sad to hear the newer engines still have oiling issues. I suspected the main reason you're primarily seeing 2013's failing was simply due to the age/miles. This time next year we will probably have a weekly thread on spun bearings on a 2014 like we do with the 2013 lately. Spun bearings on a 2013 with 80K miles on a fully stock car and proper oil levels is unreasonable IMO. I don't care how hard it's driven.
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:06 PM   #744
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Sad to hear the newer engines still have oiling issues. I suspected the main reason you're primarily seeing 2013's failing was simply due to the age/miles. This time next year we will probably have a weekly thread on spun bearings on a 2014 like we do with the 2013 lately. Spun bearings on a 2013 with 80K miles on a fully stock car and proper oil levels is unreasonable IMO. I don't care how hard it's driven.
What i can do to prevent it?
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:09 PM   #745
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Well when the 2012s came out the rockers were ejecting immediately. The update has different angles and more. We looked carefully at the parts when they came out but I don't recall all the differences besides the longer stem, different pivot oiling holes, and the ball cup in the actual rocker is different. Unfortunately it's an expensive upgrade to change all the pivots, the rockers, and the valves. It's not something we bother with during our long block builds as it no longer seems to happen with all of our mods.


Many are careful with modding their new car so often you don't see carnage until warranties are expired. LOL! Also customers are content with their cars for a period of time and then they get bored and mod
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:43 PM   #746
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What i can do to prevent it?
More oil pressure... only Phil has the answer to that. He has a business and keeps his secrets close.
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:09 PM   #747
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More oil pressure... only Phil has the answer to that. He has a business and keeps his secrets close.
More pressure = thick oil ?
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:04 PM   #748
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More oil pressure... only Phil has the answer to that. He has a business and keeps his secrets close.
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More pressure = thick oil ?
Wish we had something we could sell other than an full engine build or an LS swap

Thicker oil helps but only marginally. Run an oil weight that suits your operating temperature. If you're a street guy running at 200F the stock weight or a little heavier is all you need but if you're a track guy running at 280F you better run as high a viscosity as you can find. There is a double edge sword there however as higher viscosity means more heat so you have to manage that also.

I've documented here what oils we run so look back but don't expect but a few psi from oil changes. I will tell you nothing stays in grade like Red Line...nothing!!!!

The solution:

The dilemma is the cost as we offer a solution and it starts at $5300. Clearly that's too much for the FRS/BRZ community as not everyone is buying our engines.

Now a complete bolt on solution I'm sure I could develop for around $5000 but a customer wouldn't have a build motor so you're still going to have to build your motor for 300+ whp.

I was trying to develop at $1500 solution but that didn't work out. It's hard for me to revisit this as I don't have an FA20 BRZ/FRS anymore for extended R&D.

If I could revisit the bolt on solution for $2k realistically how many of you would really be able to afford/justify this? It would really need a proper dry sump tank that is 8 quarts so it's going to have to be in the car and that's a major drawback for most people.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:41 AM   #749
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Phil was that the new or old Reimax gears you tested?
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:35 PM   #750
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We also tried external dry sump pressure stages from in 3 different sizes and from 2 different manufactures. I was optimistic we could put together something to sell people that would be a bolt on solution. Frankly that project left me scratching my head as we weren't able to produce more pressure than we got from our Pro Comp engines using the oem pump.
By "dry sump pressure stages" you mean accusumps? Not an actual dry sump system replacing the wet sump system?
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:34 PM   #751
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Phil was that the new or old Reimax gears you tested?
We tested the Reimax 12mm gear and not the 14mm Reimax gear. Remember though we tested the 14mm WRX DIT oil pump. It probably would have been better if Reimax copied the BRZ pump rotor design but I suspect these gears are already made.

I did look into possibly manufacturing something like that using the OEM tooth profile but it's a big investment and unlikely to cure the problem.


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By "dry sump pressure stages" you mean accusumps? Not an actual dry sump system replacing the wet sump system?
Not sure how you made that leap from me saying, "dry sump pressure stage" to an oil accumulator.

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Old 06-26-2018, 04:30 AM   #752
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Not sure how you made that leap from me saying, "dry sump pressure stage" to an oil accumulator.

It was a question not an accusation.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:02 AM   #753
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Wish we had something we could sell other than an full engine build or an LS swap

Thicker oil helps but only marginally. Run an oil weight that suits your operating temperature. If you're a street guy running at 200F the stock weight or a little heavier is all you need but if you're a track guy running at 280F you better run as high a viscosity as you can find. There is a double edge sword there however as higher viscosity means more heat so you have to manage that also.

I've documented here what oils we run so look back but don't expect but a few psi from oil changes. I will tell you nothing stays in grade like Red Line...nothing!!!!

The solution:

The dilemma is the cost as we offer a solution and it starts at $5300. Clearly that's too much for the FRS/BRZ community as not everyone is buying our engines.

Now a complete bolt on solution I'm sure I could develop for around $5000 but a customer wouldn't have a build motor so you're still going to have to build your motor for 300+ whp.

I was trying to develop at $1500 solution but that didn't work out. It's hard for me to revisit this as I don't have an FA20 BRZ/FRS anymore for extended R&D.

If I could revisit the bolt on solution for $2k realistically how many of you would really be able to afford/justify this? It would really need a proper dry sump tank that is 8 quarts so it's going to have to be in the car and that's a major drawback for most people.
I would. Especially if it meant i could build a reliable high rpm motor with serious power.

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Old 07-13-2018, 03:22 AM   #754
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did someone say dry sump for the frs/brz????? where? gimmie gimmie gimmie!!!
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:42 PM   #755
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did someone say dry sump for the frs/brz????? where? gimmie gimmie gimmie!!!
Talk to Chris at Gspeed in Cresson TX. They have set up at least one BRZ that I know of with a Dailey Enginerring dry sump setup for a local racer.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:49 AM   #756
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