First test drive. Feeling disappointed.

[imprezive]

Cliff notes: How much can you feel the difference after adding a header/tune compared to stock? I know it is hard to describe, but please do your best.


Long version: When I was 17-23, I had some fun cars. Modded, autoXed, etc. For the last 10 years I've been driving a Toyota Corolla, because it just made sense economically and I had a lot of other things keeping me busy in my life. I've had the itch for a while to get a new car. I've been lurking here for about 3 months and reading as much as I can. I know the car is "under-powered". I know about the torque dip. That didn't really concern me. I plan on putting about 10k worth of mods into the car, but would like to keep it NA and very daily driver friendly. (I drive about 25k miles every year).

I've been avoiding test-driving the BRZ because I still want to wait a few more months and didn't want to get excited and jump the gun. I had a few hours to kill the other day, so I went to a dealership and drove one...

While it was more comfortable than I expected, I was really surprised how unimpressed I was with the "punch" (torque) of the motor. My 5-spd Corolla feels nearly as powerful. I had kinda expected that after driving my Corolla for so long anything would be a big step up.

I'm not looking for a rocket-ship, but just want to have an idea of the difference the standard header/tune bolt ons will make. Particularly regarding the "punch"/torque "feel" of the engine. I've looked at all the dyno charts, but I'm wanting to hear personal experiences.

Thanks!

[Decep]

Just out of curiosity, how high did you rev it? it's got decent pull after 5k rpm but yeah, its never gonna knock your socks off. the header will definitely give it a more linear feel and a better midrange though which is big.

[JIM THEO]

Is not a powerful car, it's a fast car and I am coming from a 300+ps MY04 STI...if you didn't rev it you may find it as slow as your Toyota although headers/tune make remarkable difference!

[ls1ac]

An other possible thought, a well mannered car may not "feel" as fast.
Also, unless you wind it up and shift quickly you will miss the joy of driving this little car.
It will never be fast but it sure is fun.

[DarkPira7e]

This is not a mid range torque car. If you want a semblance of excitement, you seriously have to drive with it at 5k+. A tune with headers helps a great deal, it's still not thrilling though, and you'll never feel a down low punch without FI. This isn't a car that is rewarding to drive all the time if you're expecting acceleration thrill. I had an 89 Miata with a 1.8L 95 motor swapped in, with a lightweight flywheel. It would definitely shit on my car that has a dyno tune and UEL headers.

Do not buy this car for status, or because you want to be a drift boi or part of a scene. These cars do look good, but you will be humiliated by anything else in acceleration. Corollas, Sentras, Miatas, Toyota Tacomas, civics, MOST ANYTHING. Having to shift twice before 60 doesn't help you win any drag races.

I know people will argue that the car is quick for what it is. I have no doubt that in the spirit of its legacy, the AE86, this car is excellent. Downhill touge racing, autocross, other LOW SPEED INERTIA CONTESTS. You will dominate in autocross if your driver mod is spot on. As I've said in another similar post, this car is AMAZING for those of us who like the feeling of RWD, with an up to date car that still feels 90s. It's a Miata, it's an E36, and most importantly, it's not a muscle car.

Be honest with yourself, and don't get one if it's not part of your driver's spirit. I'm not putting you down, but I want you to be full and well aware. A lot of people buy in, and a lot of people feel ridiculous because it's not what they imagined, and spend a ton of money trying to fill that void. They already know in their heart that a 350z probably would've been way cooler.

[Summerwolf]

They're not fast in a straight line without serious motor mods. They're a fun, balanced, entry level sporty car. Avoid it, enjoy your corolla.

[86TOYO2k17]

It sounds like you won’t be happy with this car unless you FI it. A low boost turbo setup can be done for about 4K and will give you the power I suspect you want. 7psi well tuned turbo should be reliable DD for years to come. Based on your post I don’t think any amount of NA mods will satisfy you. Go boost or get a different car. 370z or g37 may be what your looking for.

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by Decep

Just out of curiosity, how high did you rev it? it's got decent pull after 5k rpm but yeah, its never gonna knock your socks off. the header will definitely give it a more linear feel and a better midrange though which is big.

I ragged it out as hard as I could for a test drive. At 5k or so the engine definitely starts to come alive, but in stock form there just wasn't enough grunt in the 3-5k range.

Originally Posted by ls1ac

An other possible thought, a well mannered car may not "feel" as fast.
Also, unless you wind it up and shift quickly you will miss the joy of driving this little car.
It will never be fast but it sure is fun.

I do think there was an element of not transmitting the true sensation of speed, despite its presence. Hard to define, but it just felt so "tame".

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

This is not a mid range torque car. If you want a semblance of excitement, you seriously have to drive with it at 5k+. A tune with headers helps a great deal, it's still not thrilling though, and you'll never feel a down low punch without FI. This isn't a car that is rewarding to drive all the time if you're expecting acceleration thrill.

During spirited driving I would certainly run it the 5k+ range, but was expecting a little more of that "acceleration thrill" in the more "daily driving" RPM range.

Do not buy this car for status, or because you want to be a drift boi or part of a scene. These cars do look good, but you will be humiliated by anything else in acceleration. Corollas, Sentras, Miatas, Toyota Tacomas, civics, MOST ANYTHING. Having to shift twice before 60 doesn't help you win any drag races.

I'm way past those things in my life. I do (or did and would enjoy again) owning a car that looks great, something I could take pride in. I haven't washed my Corolla in about 6 months. haha.

As I've said in another similar post, this car is AMAZING for those of us who like the feeling of RWD, with an up to date car that still feels 90s. It's a Miata, it's an E36, and most importantly, it's not a muscle car.

This is what I thought I was looking for...but maybe it isn't.

Be honest with yourself, and don't get one if it's not part of your driver's spirit. I'm not putting you down, but I want you to be full and well aware. A lot of people buy in, and a lot of people feel ridiculous because it's not what they imagined, and spend a ton of money trying to fill that void. They already know in their heart that a 350z probably would've been way cooler.

No offense taken. I get what you're saying, but I would never buy a 350z, for a lot of reasons.

IMHO there are so few high-quality sports cars in the "affordable" range that I really was amped for the BRZ. I may have over-hyped it in my mind. Just feeling a little deflated.

See my semi cross-post: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134004

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

It sounds like you won’t be happy with this car unless you FI it. A low boost turbo setup can be done for about 4K and will give you the power I suspect you want. 7psi well tuned turbo should be reliable DD for years to come. Based on your post I don’t think any amount of NA mods will satisfy you. Go boost or get a different car. 370z or g37 may be what your looking for.

I'm afraid you might be right. A low boost SC or TC had originally been a consideration. Just not sure I want to commit to the potential issues with aftermarket FI. Personally not a fan of Nissans, but I hear you.

From my reading it is possible to get about a 20% increase torque increase from headers/exhaust/tune in the "torque dip" and a 20+ WHP increase in the top end. I would think the ol' butt dyno would feel that, no?

Not quite in the same category as the BRZ, but if Volkswagens were more reliable the Golf R would probably be my 2nd choice.

[jeffchap]

If it means anything to you, I like my '13 FR-S more now than when I bought it nearly 6 years ago. It still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, which is every day. Zero regrets.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by imprezive

I'm afraid you might be right. A low boost SC or TC had originally been a consideration. Just not sure I want to commit to the potential issues with aftermarket FI. Personally not a fan of Nissans, but I hear you.

From my reading it is possible to get about a 20% increase torque increase from headers/exhaust/tune in the "torque dip" and a 20+ WHP increase in the top end. I would think the ol' butt dyno would feel that, no?

Not quite in the same category as the BRZ, but if Volkswagens were more reliable the Golf R would probably be my 2nd choice.

You can go from about 160-170whp to about 185-195whp(depending on gas) and eliminate the torque dip to have a solid smooth delivery of power with a good header/Tune. Add E85 will push you to about 200whp if you have access to it. And you will notice a solid improvement for sure. But enough to be happy with it. Probably not. NA bolt ons are just a tease. You get a taste but not a full meal.

Low boost with a good tune and careful install shouldn’t add too much extra wear and tear and maintenance. It is added stress, and another point of failure but lots of people running for years DD with no issues. Just don’t get greedy and keep upping the boost. SBD, works, jdl turbos if self installed with a DT or Moto east tune can be done for 4,000$-4,500$ may want a oil cooler and a catch can but not necessary with low boost on a DD. Not 100% necessary either but you may want new tires as well.

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

You can go from about 160-170whp to about 185-195whp(depending on gas) and eliminate the torque dip to have a solid smooth delivery of power with a good header/Tune. Add E85 will push you to about 200whp if you have access to it. And you will notice a solid improvement for sure. But enough to be happy with it. Probably not. NA bolt ons are just a tease. You get a taste but not a full meal.

That was my understanding. I'm optimistic that this will satisfy me....but you're right. It may just make me crave more power.

We have good 93 octane around here. I don't really want to mess with E85.

Low boost with a good tune and careful install shouldn’t add too much extra wear and tear and maintenance. It is added stress, and another point of failure but lots of people running for years DD with no issues. Just don’t get greedy and keep upping the boost. SBD, works, jdl turbos if self installed with a DT or Moto east tune can be done for 4,000$-4,500$ may want a oil cooler and a catch can but not necessary with low boost on a DD. Not 100% necessary either but you may want new tires as well.

Since reliability is something you've obviously considered, curious why you lean more towards TC vs SC? Of all the FI kits, I was most interested in the Jackson SC. Figured I could even get a larger pulley to reduce the boost for longevity's sake.

The 10k "wish list" looks something like:

OF Header
Invida over, mid, Q300
Takeda intake
Custom 93 octane tune
18x8 wheels w/ Michelin SuperSports
JDM under-aero
RCE Yellows with Bilstein B6s

[ermax]

E85 in itself helps a ton with the dip. You say you don’t want to mess with it. Why not? If your availability is bad I get it. If you have good availability then all you need to do is flash a canned E85 tune and call it a day. A Tactrix cable to do the flash is only 170. If you have to switch between E85 and 93 due to bad availability then you will want a flex kit or just not run it at all. I’m lucky because one of the major gas stations in my city is putting E85 in all there locations and has already added E to all the locations I go to.

I was also let down by power delivery on this car but the seating position, steering feel, gear box, handling, RWD and LSD more than made up for the power band. E85 is all I’ve done to mine and its basically solved my power band disappointment. The more I drive my car the more in love I am.

Edit: I see you are in FL. Where in FL?

[radroach]

@imprezive Try the car with a stiffened transmission mount, whiteline insert (positive shift kit) or get the STi transmission mount. It will help deliver more of that "punch" you're looking for, as well as make the car more zippy and responsive in higher gears. Especially that on/off feel, you'll be able to roll out on power better. A highlight of the platform is engine responsiveness, but the stock OEM mount is squishy and the stock tires are limited. Upgrade these and wring 3rd gear up and down some mountain roads / twisties and it might change your mind on how the base platform delivers.

Though being aware Florida riders have more flat roads and are probably after that power to push for highway cruising, that makes sense. Turbo and supercharger kits seem to sell well down there.