Hella Fail

[ATL BRZ]

I love this thread.

[sw20kosh]

hellastance = hellapeen

This world is losing it's grip on sanity

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

235, while a bit outside of my comfort zone, isn't TOO terrible. I've considered a 235 on a 9" in the name of a stiff sidewall but decided against it. Judging from seeing it on a 9", a 9.5" is much further than I'd like but the limit of what I'd think is safe.

What scares me are the number of people here with the stock 215s (which are narrow by a 215's standard) on 9" wide wheels. And I've seen 215s on 10" wheels. That just looks like an accident waiting on happen.

Here in Orlando where the Honda/VW scene is huge, there are a lot of cars on 9-9.5" wheels with 195-205s and it's just sickening.

This is a 235 on a 17x9.

[Kido1986]

I know. It's not a problem but I decided if I was doing a 9" to go 245.

[ultra]

Originally Posted by CanibeatNoel

People have different taste. At the end of the day, it's YOUR car and do as YOU please with it.

:happy0180:

...sure, up to the point where 'doing what you please' with your car doesn't make it into a rolling safety risk to other drivers on the road.

My background is in art and sesign so I get the whole aesthetic angle. I do think that stanced cars are often quite pretty to behold and in some instances genuinely fap-worthy.

I assume that there's folks out there who are perfecty capable of building and setting up low cars so that they look great and can also handle and stop nominally well, perhaps equal to or better than the stock version of a given car. All it requires a certain level of knowledge about suspension behavior & travel, tires, vehicle dynamics and basic engineering so that informed, intelligent compromises between form amd function can be made.

Atteming to dismiss 'hellafail' cars as a fringe element of poor, ignorant kids running knockoff parts on beat up Civics because they're poor and therefore implicitly ignorant is a bit disingenuous. It's arguably just as common (as a casual look at any Hellaflush meet suggests) to see beautifully stanced cars put together using top shelf parts and buckets of money which blatantly compromise function to the point of being unsafe. Not suggesting that that's always the case but it's certainly out there.

It's a pretty fair bet that unless you're a chassis setup expert and fabricator like Robispec you probably ARE compromising function to some point when you choose to go super low. Which is fine, as long as it's an informed, intelligent compromise that doesn't result in an unsafe car.

Unfortunately the point where 'acceptable compromise' of fuction ends and 'unsafe deathtrap' begins can be pretty fuzzy. ideally folks should try to keep it real, raise awareness and facilitate intelligent discussion about where the balance lies instead of falling into a 'fanboi/hater' mentality.


TL;DR Perfectly fine with people doing whatever they want with their cars as long as they don't make it everybody's problem by jeapordizing public safety in the process.

[SubieNate]

I think @ultra makes some really good points.

If we do want to talk about driving style/speeding etc. then I see part of the problem with some of the hellaflush types is they overlap with the fast and furious type and think that their hellaflushed car is mad fast yo and street race etc. Like the video of the Russian IS, that is a very bad combo.

I'd liken it to some of the hot rods out there. Skinny front tires, ridiculously low frames, way too much power for the chassis. But the owners in general know this and drive accordingly. They know that their cars are show pieces and not race cars. They don't daily drive them, much less speed at 90 mph on the freeway in traffic with them, because the risks are just too high. I haven't seen that same respect for the limitations of a machine built around aesthetics in the stance/hellaflush world.

Nathan

[OmarGC]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

235, while a bit outside of my comfort zone, isn't TOO terrible. I've considered a 235 on a 9" in the name of a stiff sidewall but decided against it. Judging from seeing it on a 9", a 9.5" is much further than I'd like but the limit of what I'd think is safe.

It's not terrible at all... a 9.5 rim width is within the specs of most manufacturers* 235/40's.

Edited typo

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[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CanibeatNoel

People have different taste. At the end of the day, it's YOUR car and do as YOU please with it.

Let's do a quick switcharoo.

People have different taste. At the end of the day, it's YOUR gun and do as YOU please with it.

Just because it's yours doesn't mean you can literally do as you please with it. Want to own a gun? It's your right. Go for it. Can you carry it around with you? Sure. Can you shoot at whatever you want wherever you want, whenever you want? Nope.

Wanna be low? Go for it. Wanna stretch tires and go hellaflush? Well, lets hope you don't cause anyone bodily harm as a result of willful negligence, because that's what it is.

[OmarGC]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Let's do a quick switcharoo.

People have different taste. At the end of the day, it's YOUR gun and do as YOU please with it.

Just because it's yours doesn't mean you can literally do as you please with it. Want to own a gun? It's your right. Go for it. Can you carry it around with you? Sure. Can you shoot at whatever you want wherever you want, whenever you want? Nope.

Wanna be low? Go for it. Wanna stretch tires and go hellaflush? Well, lets hope you don't cause anyone bodily harm as a result of willful negligence, because that's what it is.

Exaggeration much? Come the fuck on...

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[Kido1986]

I found some did and some didn't (higher performance tires didn't seem to recommend it but I know these two don't overlap too often). 9" was as wide as the PSS, Dunlop SS Z1/Z2 and RS3 matter. Those are the tires I mostly care about though most "flush" guys, maybe not so much

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by OmarGC

Exaggeration much? Come the fuck on...

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An extreme example sure, but he's right. In the case of a serious accident, your insurance company and especially the other guy's insurance company are going to jump on ANYTHING to disqualify you. If your tires are rated to take an 8.5" rim and you have them on a 9.5" and your insurance company finds that, you're hosed. If somebody died in the accident? You're really hosed.

There's a reason so many aftermarket parts manufacturers label their products, "Offroad use only." It's because it limits their liability. Even if their products are 100% perfectly great for the street, they sell them as track use parts because that way if you wreck with their parts on the car and it's determined to be a problem with their product, even if it was in install error, they can just point the finger at you and say, "He shouldn't have been using our product on the street, it's for the track only!" and walk away. This type of liability is a very real thing.

If the car in the MotoIQ article chad been in a serious accident, it's owner would have been in a world of hurt when the car got inspected by the insurance adjusters.

Nathan

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OmarGC

Exaggeration much? Come the fuck on...

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I don't think so... I think there are a lot more gun owners than hellaflush cars.

How's this one:

People have different taste. At the end of the day, it's YOUR dog and do as YOU please with it.

Do you have every right to have a pet? Yes. You're gonna be taking responsibility for that animal if it causes any bodily or property damage to others...

[OmarGC]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

I found some did and some didn't (higher performance tires didn't seem to recommend it but I know these two don't overlap too often). 9" was as wide as the PSS, Dunlop SS Z1/Z2 and RS3 matter. Those are the tires I mostly care about though most "flush" guys, maybe not so much

I run AD08's... which I put a step above z1's and rs3's(sloppy). Z2's can't say as time frame has not allowed me to and pss's never cared for. But assuming they run narrower then the good old advan neovas


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[OmarGC]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I don't think so... I think there are a lot more gun owners than hellaflush cars.

How's this one:

People have different taste. At the end of the day, it's YOUR dog and do as YOU please with it.

Do you have every right to have a pet? Yes. You're gonna be taking responsibility for that animal if it causes any bodily or property damage to others...

I'm sure there's more people in the world getting struck by lightning because they're outside during a storm then causing crashes, injury, and death because their cars are specifically "hella flush" if they choose to be asshats on the road and get themselves in trouble that's a different story.... And through my life experiences there's a lot more crashes, injury, and death due to over confidence in their car due to their "proper" setup, and lack there of driving abilities.

But apparently everyone here that hates on it is apparently a competition racecar driver. Myself personally I "stance" my cars for daily driving, and may go play around at the local safe locations to slide around, if I'm driving one of my FR cars... I see absolutely no harm in my daily setups for what it is needed for at the time aka daily driving on road use and not racing around on public roads. Don't know about most guys on this board, but I got out the phase of needing to go WOT, etc. early on due to the low cost, ease, and availability of track time where I have lived previously. To this day, if it's a track day approaching different rims/tires go on and height/camber is adjusted which should be a given for most.