Another ACE headers issue

[mistople]

Sorry to hijack, but I have a follow up question on the Ace header:

Has anyone found a better solution for the 3 bolts holding the 4-2 manifold to overpipe flange together? I've probably lost a half dozen of those nuts/bolts in under a year and no matter what I do, they seem to come undone under track conditions.

Grabbed an image from the install instructions for reference:

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by mistople

Sorry to hijack, but I have a follow up question on the Ace header:

Has anyone found a better solution for the 3 bolts holding the 4-2 manifold to overpipe flange together? I've probably lost a half dozen of those nuts/bolts in under a year and no matter what I do, they seem to come undone under track conditions.

Grabbed an image from the install instructions for reference:

Preferably stainless. Do not reuse, replace if removed and use anti-seize on install.

Probably not the right thread, just an example. Often called a top lock or crimp lock.

https://www.mcmaster.com/93795a230

[SuperTom]

Yeah mine became corroded get some stainless ones

[JIM THEO]

I don't know if this helps you but as I bought a new set of ACE nuts/bolts the nuts are different from the past, probably copper alloy, as they are bronze colored.
May be a set of new nuts and use of washers or are the bolts that come loose and not the nuts in your case?
https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net...1031667481.jpg

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by mistople

Sorry to hijack, but I have a follow up question on the Ace header:

Has anyone found a better solution for the 3 bolts holding the 4-2 manifold to overpipe flange together? I've probably lost a half dozen of those nuts/bolts in under a year and no matter what I do, they seem to come undone under track conditions.

Grabbed an image from the install instructions for reference:

could try a lock washer or Ultra High Temperature Threadlocker Blue should keep them from rattling off.

[B T]

Just wanted to chime in with issues as well. Lots of buzzing on stock engine mounts and even worse on Perrin engine mounts. Lost several bolts due to heat cycling. Flanges have warped and had to resurface flat. The flanges at the head locations don't match up to the studs and required blunt force to fit. Overall, these things aren't even worth half of what I paid for them and are a huge pain in the ass.

[NoHaveMSG]

@mistople you can also try a longer bolt and double nutting. Might be easier to find the hardware to do that.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by B T

Just wanted to chime in with issues as well. Lots of buzzing on stock engine mounts and even worse on Perrin engine mounts. Lost several bolts due to heat cycling. Flanges have warped and had to resurface flat. The flanges at the head locations don't match up to the studs and required blunt force to fit. Overall, these things aren't even worth half of what I paid for them and are a huge pain in the ass.

Been running ace header over 2 years with zero issues or lost/backed out bolts. didnt need to use any loctite or lock washers or anything special either, although those could help if its an on going issue.
I had buzzing at first before i hammered out the skid plate. some people need to do it in 2 spots, 1 spot is less obvious then the other.

Also are people undoing every bolt down to at least the FP to cat back, and then installing/torquing down all the bolts starting at the block and working your way back to the catback? this should keep everything cinched up and pulled into the engine, if you torque bolts starting at the other end it will be pulling away from the engine, potentially adding different stresses, or misalignmenst, could be the cause of bolts backing out and or buzzing/noises, welds cracking etc...

[Infinity]

Originally Posted by B T

Just wanted to chime in with issues as well. Lots of buzzing on stock engine mounts and even worse on Perrin engine mounts. Lost several bolts due to heat cycling. Flanges have warped and had to resurface flat. The flanges at the head locations don't match up to the studs and required blunt force to fit. Overall, these things aren't even worth half of what I paid for them and are a huge pain in the ass.

I can't believe all of the issues everyone is having with a $2000 header. When you pay that much you would not expect fitment issues or bolts coming loose.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Infinity

I can't believe all of the issues everyone is having with a $2000 header. When you pay that much you would not expect fitment issues or bolts coming loose.

I've only heard a handful of complaints Whats this everyone?

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Infinity

I can't believe all of the issues everyone is having with a $2000 header. When you pay that much you would not expect fitment issues or bolts coming loose.

how much of this is install error? wrong torque specs? buying used products and reusing old bolts and/or gaskets? not re-torquing after heat cycle?

as far as fitment goes, the only "fitment" issue is with contact with the skid plate, and that is not a flaw in the product, but a limitation to the possible designs, meaning in order to have the optimal design it is a necessary evil, and a very minor, free to fix issue. Otherwise the vast majority of people have had no issues or complaints.

also my ace 250 header was 1350$ brand new shipped from a vendor (no discount/sale price), and 350 type As are about 1700$, back when more vendors stocked them you could get them for 1500$ when they had their annual sales. So not really close to 2000$

[JIM THEO]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

how much of this is install error? wrong torque specs? buying used products and reusing old bolts and/or gaskets? not re-torquing after heat cycle?

as far as fitment goes, the only "fitment" issue is with contact with the skid plate, and that is not a flaw in the product, but a limitation to the possible designs, meaning in order to have the optimal design it is a necessary evil, and a very minor, free to fix issue. Otherwise the vast majority of people have had no issues or complaints.

also my ace 250 header was 1350$ brand new shipped from a vendor (no discount/sale price), and 350 type As are about 1700$, back when more vendors stocked them you could get them for 1500$ when they had their annual sales. So not really close to 2000$

I am not complaining but I have rubbing issues with the subframe, this is serious issue as I have to buy harder engine mounts and gearbox mount insert.
I adjusted the skid plate, needs some more hammering probably as my A350 are second hand, but the subframe issue IS ridiculous at least for me it adds ~250-300$ above the already expensive headers!

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by JIM THEO

I am not complaining but I have rubbing issues with the subframe, this is serious issue as I have to buy harder engine mounts and gearbox mount insert.
I adjusted the skid plate, needs some more hammering probably as my A350 are second hand, but the subframe issue IS ridiculous at least for me it adds ~250-300$ above the already expensive headers!

They should mention it for each header, but they don't. It is pretty well documented and known that you should add stiffer motor mounts for their headers.


What is funny is they sell motor mounts, and quoted in the motor mount section.

Hardrace 7440 motor mounts are recommended for anyone using the Type A or Type B 250 or 350 on their FRS/BRZ/GT86

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by JIM THEO

I am not complaining but I have rubbing issues with the subframe, this is serious issue as I have to buy harder engine mounts and gearbox mount insert.
I adjusted the skid plate, needs some more hammering probably as my A350 are second hand, but the subframe issue IS ridiculous at least for me it adds ~250-300$ above the already expensive headers!

i wonder why some people have issues with subframe rubbing, and most people like myself have zero issues with subframe rubbing on both stock engine mounts and then later sti mounts. is it the 4-2 header or 2-1 overpipe causing the rubbing?

just realized you are in Greece, are you guys RHD or LFD? if you are RHD then it is known and state that the 350 has fitment issues. "GT86/FRS/BRZ 4-2-1 MERGE HEADER, 350 COLLECTOR, LHD" I hope the RHD people aren't the ones buying the 350 and complaining about fitment.