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Old 09-13-2013, 08:26 PM   #1
Rombinhood@OpenFlash
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OpenFlash Tuning Tech: Tales from the Dyno (Stock, Ecutek and OpenFlash tunes)



Greetings!
Everyone who has ordered an OpenFlash Tablet should have their units next week. They will all shipping out today via USPS

That said, I've kept the guys at Vishnu Tuning pretty busy this past several days in an effort to get the baseline maps ready for public release on Monday. Last night, Shiv@Vishnu met up with forum members RehabJeff86 and Phatpanda at FFTEC to test the final versions of the Stg 1 map. This map is intended for cars with both stock cats in place. So far, there are two version of the Stg 1 map, one for cars with stock airboxes (with stock or replacement panel filters) and one for cars with Air Raid intakes. Their Stg 2 map is already done and was tested earlier this week on a Dynojet where it made some great gains on a full bolt-on car. Keep in mind that Mustang Dyno's read lower than Dynojets so it's important not to compare the two results. The Stg 2 test car will be tested at FFTEC soon so we can compares apples to apples. But enough of that, on to the interesting tuning talk! And for that, I turn the mic over to Shiv@Vishnu...

Please note that opinions expressed by Shiv do not necessarily reflect that of OpenFlash or any of its affiliates


-----
Hi guys,
Things are looking great as far as baseline maps go. My goal was to make a calibration that would work safely on a wide range of vehicles running pump gas. So RehabJeff and Phatpanda were kind enough to do some testing for us. First let's start off with Phatpanda's wild FR-S. It the flat black one with the insane custom body kit that has been on display at many car shows. As far as engine mods go, it has an AirRaid intake and a cat-back exhaust. Here's the story as told by the dyno.....

Phatpanda's FR-S

Run 1 (stock tune- solid line) and Run 2 (only fuel map changed for Air Raid Intake- dotted line)

This run was just to test the fuel map modifications I made for the AirRaid intake when testing our own Stage 2 car earlier this week. We found that the Air Raid intake tends to screw up the MAF readings making the engine run very rich, especially above 6000rpm. So the fuel map, I specifically made for this intake, corrects for this as you can see in the graph above. With only thing change, the car pics up a some decent power up top.

Run 2 (as above- dotted line) and Run 3 (add VVT map adjustment- solid line)
In this dyno, I just wanted to see what adding in the intake and exhaust VVT map adjustments did to power output:

This made some improvements to the torque dip. It also resulted in a richer AFR without any changes to the fuel table. This is a good example of how changes in one parameter can induce a change in another parameter.

Run 3 (add VVT Mao adjustments- dotted line) and Run 4 (add ignition advance changes- solid line):

In this graph, we see the effects of implementing the ignition map adjustments of our Stg 1 tune. Decent power gains everywhere. Especially up top. Air fuel is nice is

Run 4 (added ignition adv mapping changes- dotted) and Run 5 (Stg 1 baseline map for cars with Air Raid Intake- solid line):
In this graph, we compared the previous run with a full Stg 1 map. This includes changes to cylinder compensations, rev limits, air temp compensations for timing and fuel, etc,. And you can see that power became smoother everywhere.

Run 5 (Stg 1 baseline- solid) and stock tune (dotted line):

And to recap, here is the comparison of this car running our Stg 1 baseline map and the stock tune. More power up top and smaller/shorter torque dip. What is nice is that the car is still quite rich which means that there is still room left on the table for those who want to try to eek out every last hp. But for now, this is a good one-size-fits-all map for those with Air Raid Intakes.

But what about cars with stock intake boxes? That's where RehabJeff's car comes into play. And this was interesting because Jeff already had a previous Stage 1" Ecutek tune from another vendor. He got this tune 1 month ago (with cable and license for nearly $900) It is up to Jeff to say where it came from. Because what I found isn't pretty. But it's verifiable if anyone else wants to do their own testing with this particular tune. I'll post my opinions later but first just the facts...

RehabJeff's FR-S

Here are two runs from his Ecutek tune:

The Ecutek vendor name has been obscured to protect the innocent. As fas as performance, it doesn't look that much different than a stock tune other than the fact it's running extremely lean at ~14:1 AFR. Top end isn't very special. Especially for a tune that, for some reason, has the rev limiter set at a 8000rpm. The most i was willing to rev the engine out to was 7600rpm on the dyno.

"Stock map" ecutek (solid) and Stg1 Ecutek tune (dotted):

Given how lean the Stg1 tune runs, I'd say the "stock" tune is more preferable, safer and more stable. The Ecutek master tuner who did this did make very minor some changes to the VVT map (I was able to read his map) which resulted in some moderate torque dip improvements. But top end power was nearly identical other than the difference in rev limits. Not sure how they claim the hp numbers they claim but that's none of my business.

Next graph shows our Baseline Stg 1 stock airbox map (solid line) vs the Stg 1 Ecutek tune (dotted):

Pretty obvious the difference. Much better handling of the torque dip. More power everywhere. And most importantly, not running lean anymore. Keep in mind that we didn't custom tune our baseline map. It was just loaded up and tested as both RehabJeff and Phatpanda, who were present, can attest to.

Next graph shows two successive pulls of our Stg 1 baseline map just to show consistency:


So I was interested in see what made the Ecutek tune perform like it did. I wanted to rule out the possibility of there being something wrong with the car. So I read the tune off the ECU and then did a difference comparison with the stock tune. Here are the list of most of the tables that were adjusted (and how they were adjusted).



Accel pedal torque request tables-- these were modified to make the car feel "more peppy" so that the press of the throttle pedal results in more throttle opening. This doesn't actually improve max power but does give the subjective impression of more power.

Rev Limters- They were raised to 8000rpm. Absurd and unnecessarily stressful for an tune/engine that makes peak power at 7000rpm.

VTT maps- Exhaust VVT was barely modified over stock. Intake VVT map was slightly more modified but nothing close to optimal. This is why the torque dip was barely improved over stock.

Ignition Advance map- ~0.5 deg was added above 3600rpm under load. Not much tuning here.

Base Ignition maps- all stock (even the extra ones that Ecutek codes for in their Race ROM).

Closed Loop AFR maps: These were all set to 14.7:1. This disables long-term fuel trims. This was an intention choice the tuner made.

Fuel Map- here's where what I found shocking. It was mapped intentionally (ie, this was not a result of a series of typos). I don't think the tuner, who was responsible for the tuning, even used an actual external wideband AFR sensor. Instead, I'm guessing he relied only on the stock AFR sensor which anyone who has actually tuned this platform, already knows that it is NOT ACCURATE. It is calibrated to read far richer than reality. Furthermore, the values put into the Fuel table don't translate to the logged (ie, still inaccurate) AFR. For example, if you put 12:4 in the fuel table, you will see around around 13:5 in your datalogs. But your actual AFR (measured with a proper wideband AFR sensor) will read around 14:1. My guess is that this tuner made a couple wrong assumptions. First, he thought that the stock AFR sensor was accurate when he tuned on the road through datalogs. Second, he thought that what he believed was a 13.5:1 AFR was ideal which isn't close to being the case on a high impression engine with an aggressive cam profile (when actually, you want to see as rich as 12-12.2:1 in your datalogs which actually translates to an actual of 12.8-13:1 when measured with an accurate wideband sensor). There is no other reason why I can think that he would have tuned it this way. I wouldn't even call this tuning. It's more like fiddling and hoping for the best. And to be fair, there is some error involved with measuring AFR at the tailpipe, post catalytic converts where they tend to read ~0.2 point leaner than reality. But even that still puts this tunes squarely in the 14:1 range during most of it's RPM band.

Also, there were no mapping changes to important things like acceleration enrichments, over-run maps, o2 sensor calibrations, closed loop delays, etc,. I don't consider these maps very high level. Any competent tuner would adjust these immediately as are very responsible for throttle response, drivability and knock resistance.

Sorry if this upsets anyone. But sometimes people need to be upset before improvements can be made. My biggest problem with Ecutek "master tuners" is that they often aren't experienced tuners. They are customers of Ecutek. Ecutek makes amazing software geared towards their customers (their "master tuners"). There is no coincidence that they are first to market and are able to offer features that others don't. But when it comes to tuning (which is what matters), the product is only as good as those tuners who use it. And when you deal with tuners who are inexperienced and who don't disclose mapping details, there is very little growth since every "master tuner" operates in their own little bubble. Hopefully OpenFlash ROM tuning (which is now finally here!) will get them to shape up and improve upon their product.

That's my 2c,

Shiv

PS. When comparing the tunes, I made sure that the ignition advance multiplier was always set to 1. This is important when comparing tunes to the stock ROM which defaults to 0.7 after ECU reset which would otherwise result in an artificially low stock baseline dyno.

Last edited by Rombinhood@OpenFlash; 09-13-2013 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:49 PM   #2
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Dyno tuning begins at FFTec with Vishnu Shiv doing a baseline and making improvements one run at a time.



Baseline vs Vishnu tuning (timing and air/fuel adjustments only)



RehabJeff86 on the dyno, after reflashing back to stock maps and Vishnu uploading the exactly same tune from my car onto his.



RehabJeff86 only has a drop in filter, exhaust and a pulley. His car made 3whp less at peak than with my car with Airaid intake box.

Driving Impression from Whathedunk:


I've driven the "Batmobile" a few times prior to his tune and as much fun as the car was to drive with it's outrageous amount of grip, the power band of the stock tune was limiting the car's potential.

The car feels completely different now compared to the stock ecu tune. Yeah the car may not have forced induction but I think it will hold it's own and be tons of the fun on the track.

Impressions on the tune, throttle response has improved, mid range power delivery is definitely more apparent, and power continues to climb to the new 7,600 RPM redline. I was most impressed with what Shiv was able to do with the torque dip, running through the gears my favorite place to be was from 4k-5k rpm as the motor really wakes up and comes to life.

I personally never cared for drive by wire on cars these days and always preferred the mechanical gas pedal but it seems the tune has improved the overall feel making rev matching and throttling out of turns even better.

I honestly was not expecting to feel much of a difference after the tune but I stand corrected haha. Although the tune would benefit track day/autox guys largely who are always up there on the power band, even daily driving would be more fun.

Last thought is that this is how the car should have came tuned from the factory. Kudos to Shiv for working out a tune so fast and Panda for letting me take the car out for a bit last night



-PP

Last edited by phatpanda; 09-15-2013 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:55 PM   #3
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WOW, those are some enlightening results. I really didn't think th factory sensor was that far off. Has the factory sensor been compaired to a wideband on a catless car? I guess i will find out next week when i install my wideband,
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:56 PM   #4
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Wow, very impressed!

Cool that you could read that... as we call them in the software industry "script kiddie"... map I didn't even know that was possible with Ecutek?
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:01 PM   #5
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This is all very intriguing and interesting!
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:06 PM   #6
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WOW, those are some enlightening results. I really didn't think th factory sensor was that far off. Has the factory sensor been compaired to a wideband on a catless car? I guess i will find out next week when i install my wideband,
Yes, the factory AFR sensor reads very optimistically. But of course, there are some variances in even the best aftermarket wideband AFR sensors so it's impossible to tell how accurate each is without actually measure the number of air molecules and fuel molecules going into the engine. So all sensors just give estimated AFR values. But the important thing to walk away with is that some of these vendor tunes seem to be almost arbitrarily tuned for a leaner-than-necessary AFR. If running air/fuel mixtures that lean actually had a performance benefit, I could see at least some kind of argument being made. But that's not the case. As you know from your tuning experience, you can (and should) run any high compression, knock/octane limited engine as rich as possible without seeing power loss. That's a basic tuning principle for street tuning for safety and power-- shiv
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:11 PM   #7
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arrrggghhhh please don't call this open source tuning again. it very much isn't. i'm so conflicted i love your posts... so informative and they are a model for the kind of information sharing we need... but quit relating this thing to open source. it's just not. when it's on github and public under gpl/mit/etc, then you call it open source .

sorry it's a pet peeve lol.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:14 PM   #8
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arrrggghhhh please don't call this open source tuning again. it very much isn't. i'm so conflicted i love your posts... so informative and they are a model for the kind of information sharing we need... but quit relating this thing to open source. it's just not. when it's on github and public, it's open source.

sorry it's a pet peeve lol.
The ROM file is completely open to edit, re-write, modify, etc,. Which is why Open Source term is used. The read/writing firmware for the Tablet itself (or the Map editor) is not open source. Which is why we only call it Open Source tuning. Not Open Source ECU Flashing. But I think that's another topic for another I suppose. From now on, we can call it "Open tuning" if the term "open source" upsets anyone.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:15 PM   #9
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arrrggghhhh please don't call this open source tuning again. it very much isn't. i'm so conflicted i love your posts... so informative and they are a model for the kind of information sharing we need... but quit relating this thing to open source. it's just not. when it's on github and public under gpl/mit/etc, then you call it open source .

sorry it's a pet peeve lol.
Yea definitely. However, it does "open" the tune file itself which is what you need to modify the tune for your car. In that way, I consider it a huge step forward and much more pro-consumer than the Ecutek business model.

There's really nothing "open" about the device, though, from what I can tell. But its the tunes I really care about. I'm also a little confused about the nature of the tune files themselves and whether those are truly open.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:17 PM   #10
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...Hopefully open source tuning (which is now finally here!) will get them to shape up and improve upon their product.
I don't think its right to mix "open source" and "tuning" in this way. I agree this opens up the tune file, but what about the hardware? That is not open itself, so no real "source code" is open here from what I can tell.

If you guys release the source code for everything then that would be really awesome!

EDIT: I just got this from their website..

It is a portable hand held flashing device with high-resolution backlit color touchscreen with internal speaker. It comes with a USB cable, OBDII cable and download links for the OpenFlash software (map manager), map editor (Tuner Pro) and XML definition files.

What is “open” ECU mapping?
The term “open”, in the tuning world, refers to being able to have full access to the ECU’s ROM file. In the case of the FA20 ECU, this ROM file is a 1.3megabyte binary (.bin) file that is stored in a memory location on your ECU. This file is where all the engine mapping data is stored. By “full access”, you are able to read, save and edit your original ROM file without any sort of encryption. You will also have full knowledge of table location (when defined in the .XDF definition file), its values and its scaling. There is nothing hidden or obscured for the sake of IP protection. Even the dealership won’t be able to easily tell if the ECU is modified since the software IDs are unchanged.



I think this can be considered "open" since the .bin is fully open to read and edit in a potentially different piece of hardware. Correct? But I still don't consider that "open source" at all like you used since none of the software you are using seems to be using an open source license...
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:18 PM   #11
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The ROM file is completely open to edit, re-write, modify, etc,. Which is why Open Source term is used. The read/writing firmware for the Tablet itself (or the Map editor) is not open source. Which is why we only call it Open Source tuning. Not Open Source ECU Flashing. But I think that's another topic for another I suppose. From now on, we can call it "Open tuning" if the term "open source" upsets anyone.
thanks. those of us who spend lots and lots of hours committing to open projects let it strike a nerve sometimes lol. didn't mean to be offensive, but in a weird way that does offend a lot of people (nerds, mainly).
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:19 PM   #12
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Yea definitely. However, it does "open" the tune file itself which is what you need to modify the tune for your car. In that way, I consider it a huge step forward and much more pro-consumer than the Ecutek business model.

There's really nothing "open" about the device, though, from what I can tell. But its the tunes I really care about.

Also, I've never seen this referred to as "open source" tuning but that's a huge misnomer.
oh for sure, i'm just being picky. they could call it whatever the hell they want and i'd still buy one and love them for it. i just nerd rage lol.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Rombinhood@OpenFlash View Post
The ROM file is completely open to edit, re-write, modify, etc,. Which is why Open Source term is used. The read/writing firmware for the Tablet itself (or the Map editor) is not open source. Which is why we only call it Open Source tuning. Not Open Source ECU Flashing. But I think that's another topic for another I suppose. From now on, we can call it "Open tuning" if the term "open source" upsets anyone.
I don't feel right about purchasing a product that calls themselves "Open Source" unless you are using an open source software license, which you are not.

This opens up the tune to be edited, yes, but there's nothing open source about this really IMO.

I was perfectly fine with you calling it "open" tuning but "open source tuning" is a huge misnomer and gives people who are involved with open source software a bad feeling as this isn't an open platform at all. It just cracks the ecu and allows you to edit it, which is good, but nothing about that is open source.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:28 PM   #14
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oh for sure, i'm just being picky. they could call it whatever the hell they want and i'd still buy one and love them for it. i just nerd rage lol.
No I definitely agree with you. I thought they were referring to this as "Open tuning"... "open source tuning" is not right and they shouldn't be calling this that unless something in the platform is open source...
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