HKS EL or Tomei EL?

[Lantanafrs2]

Guys attack shiv but at least he isn't pumping his product shamelessly

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

What impressive is how simple and easy google and the search function are to find whatever your looking for. Like header dynos and comparison and debates. Every other week another header forum pops up. All the info is at your finger tips already just go take two seconds to find. like this dyno of the revworks vs ace comparison your referring to. Enjoy!

Thanks for doing that for me. Like I said, gains... not that crazy for the investment considering he said that was a custom tune for the ace and an ecutek tune for the revworks. The biggest difference is the low rpm dip, otherwise they're not too far apart. Examine the heat chart he posted up as well.

Either way a header is needed for this car unless you turbo.

[Lantanafrs2]

The op asked about 2 brands of header and once again we got another bullshit thread full of purchase justification and fanboyism.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

The op asked about 2 brands of header and once again we got another bullshit thread full of purchase justification and fanboyism.

Yup! Everyone always throws ACE down their throats as though they can just fork out that money. The HKS and Tomei are reasonably priced and perform just fine.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Quick 2 second google search. For comparison sake let’s say a custom tune (license+tune) is 700$

HKS EL on 92octane - before 172hp after with a custom ecutek dyno tune 195
23hp - 13% increase, at 650+700 / 13 = 103$ per 1% increase.

ACE 350 on 91octane - before 165hp after with a custom ecutek dyno tune 193
28hp - 17% increase, 1650+700 / 17 = 138$ per 1% increase.

That is peak vs peak comparisons.

Then comparing torque at 4000rpm

HKS before 122, after 140
18ft-lbs - 14.7% increase, 1350 / 14.7 = 92$ per 1% increase

ACE before 121 after 152
30ft-lbs - 25.6% increase, 2350 / 25.6 = 92$ per 1% increase.

So realistically ACE is about equal to HKS for bang for buck despite being 1000$ more.

problem with google searches is you dont know full mod list was it on same dyno same fuel same atmospheric conditions.

were they running stock front pipe or aftermarket ??


Ive personally seen same car same dyno same fuel make 10kw at wheels different from a 5C day to a 38C day

As well almost everyone that forks out $1500 plus for an ace header gets a custom tune which is understandable.

but its not rearly a fair comparison if your comparing it to the person who used a different header and is on a canned tune.

most canned tunes expect your going to run good 93, so again if the person with canned tune runs 91 its not going to be optimum.

most canned tunes also tend to run rich so its safe for all cars, again this costs some power.

The ACE is a good header and does work well on 91 due better scavaging than most other headers.

but this advantage is reduced if you run good 93 fuel and further reduced if you run E85.

when you factor in custom ecutek tune licience and cable the price difference gets bigger


If your not a fairly serious track/auto x person it may not be worth the extra money to a lot of people especially if you run E85 fuels

[Lantanafrs2]

That's the most sensible post so far.

[86TOYO2k17]

As I already stated both are custom dyno Tuned. And With HKS having higher octane. 92 vs 91

As for the other things

Temps
July in WA for HKS
May in Cali for ace.
Doesn’t say exact temps but July in WA is similar to Cali in may, with a good chance of Cali being hotter.

Ace was otherwise stock.
HKS had intake and full header back.

Also the HKS tune was not conservatively tuned,
where as the ACE was on a conservative tune for hot summer track days in Cali on 91octane.

[gpvecchi]

Maybe stupid question, but how in many octanes are US fuel available? In Italy we have 95 and 100.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Mystic Saturn

It will be my first time swapping my stock header to an aftermarket one and i'm stuck choosing between the two of either Tomei Expreme EL or HKS EL. I want to know if anyone has any dyno results for either two. Which one would you guys recommend better and why? Thanks.

So which did you end up choosing?

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by gpvecchi

Maybe stupid question, but how in many octanes are US fuel available? In Italy we have 95 and 100.

In the US, octane rating is different than in most other countries. Rather than using RON for octane, we have what's known as AKI or Anti-Knock Index. AKI is just RON+MON/2 anyhow, so it's very similar. So a European 95 Octane (RON) would be a 91 AKI in the US, which is commonly sold in many states as Premium. Some states in the US have 93 AKI as premium which is equivalent to a 97 Octane (RON). Your 100 Octane would be like 96 AKI, however I've never seen 96 offered anywhere in the US.


In the US every single state mandates their own requirements for gasoline, there's no specific national standard. However, it has come about that 87 AKI is typically offered everywhere as "regular", 89 AKI is typically offered everywhere as "super", and 91 or 93 AKI is typically the choice offered everywhere as "premium". Some gas stations also offer high octane fuels. Here in Texas for instance, some stations have 100 (105 RON) or 104 (110 RON) AKI fuel, such as VP Racing stations around the San Antonio area where I live.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by sroby

Or follow codename47 and myself, decat your stock equal length manifold. Dont just knock out the cat internally, literally section it out, less than 100.00. You have to have it tuned anyway. It’s a pretty decent unit from Subaru as it is. On a Dyno, as modified it might come up a couple horsepower short of the 650.00 to 1100.00 units. Save your money on suspension, modify what you have, I guarantee you can’t feel the 1000.00 difference on Dyno or butt Dyno.

He needs that stock unit due to CA smog laws when the time comes. Any reason EL vs UEL? Besides the ace headers, UEL tends to smooth out the torque dip a bit than all the other EL's. If you want brand new Gruppe-S UEL header offers the exact same build quality and nearly same design as the Tomei UEL. Hell people say they are made from the same factory and are only 475$. Get a used OFT in the FS/FT second for 400$ or less and you have a great combo for under 1000$. Get a custom e-tune from Steve or one of the other members who offer it which will really dial in the OFT tune for your car. You will not gain much power but you will notice how smooth the tune is plus your IAM will always been near 1 even on our shitty 91 piss gas.

[holmbergfrs16]

I have ran a invidia el from 1500mi to 22,000 on a oft no problems. Now boosted with a hks v3 s/c with 26000mi no problem. No check engine lights. The only thing I have had wrong was where the pipe y to 2 pipes it cracked but that’s probably due to just hard driving and weight of the exhaust I welded a brace from the collector to the bracket that bolts to the block.


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[Greacemonkey]

I have no numbers, just few years of experience. I've been running a Tomei El since Mai 2014. it been paired with Tomei overpipe, frontpipe, 60R catback and OFT. The car had quite some track time too (lots of drift session, drag and a bit of lapping). I daily drive the car during for two winters and on bumpy streets (Quebec and Winnipeg, Canada). Verdict after 4 years of abuse: No exhaust leak or cracks. I am impress by the quality of the product and I m not at my first headers with my cars. HKS is surely a top brand too but I had one on my Rb26 and I needed to re weld it after 2 years of only street use. The only thing I would say is that if you plan to go FI in the future, they will restrain you a little bit (I might sell mine next spring to for a larger one hehe).

[Spec C Wannabe]

Originally Posted by Greacemonkey

I have no numbers, just few years of experience. I've been running a Tomei El since Mai 2014. it been paired with Tomei overpipe, frontpipe, 60R catback and OFT. The car had quite some track time too (lots of drift session, drag and a bit of lapping). I daily drive the car during for two winters and on bumpy streets (Quebec and Winnipeg, Canada). Verdict after 4 years of abuse: No exhaust leak or cracks. I am impress by the quality of the product and I m not at my first headers with my cars. HKS is surely a top brand too but I had one on my Rb26 and I needed to re weld it after 2 years of only street use. The only thing I would say is that if you plan to go FI in the future, they will restrain you a little bit (I might sell mine next spring to for a larger one hehe).

Is your Tomei EL thermal wrapped or ceramic coated?