No Brembos = suck

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Capable of doing the job, and right for the job are not the same thing. The issue with stock brakes is you go through pads/rotors/fluid much quicker. Not that they don't work. Again, as evident by the guys who have to race on stock calipers.



Can't answer it is more like it.



Unless you are tracking at least 6 times a year, and plan to do so for at least 3+ years, it is not really worth it. Think of how many pads/rotors you can buy for 2k. If you do look at BBK look at what consumables cost and availability. The AP kit has a common pad shape. Stoptech also uses common pad shape, but the friction rings are about 100/ea more then the AP's. The Brembo GT kit is more money for similar performance at supposed higher quality.

It’s not only consumables that are on my list, running a comparison between the setup are also something that I like doing. Having the extra headroom, reduced unsprung mass among aothrr benefits.
Like, moving from gen1 to gen2 on my experience level also doesn’t make sense (I did because cost was the cost was low, close to the bbk cost).

Other thing that I do consider is the piston boot availability (and material), as I do not want the hassle of removing during winter.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

It’s not only consumables that are on my list, running a comparison between the setup are also something that I like doing. Having the extra headroom, reduced unsprung mass among aothrr benefits.
Like, moving from gen1 to gen2 on my experience level also doesn’t make sense (I did because cost was the cost was low, close to the bbk cost).

Other thing that I do consider is the piston boot availability (and material), as I do not want the hassle of removing during winter.

Unsprung mass is going to be AP. Though the wilwood is lighter then the stoptech because it has the narrowest rotor which is not good for cooling. I think the piston boot is an overblown concern. I know multiple NW'ers that run the AP's year round, no issue. I have also heard guys say the boot will melt, I have the ST kit with the ST-40 calipers. I tore mine down to rebuild them last winter and have had no issues with the boots.

[s30series]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

I'm definitely 100% not arguing that there are benefits to Brembos/AP Racing/Wilwood, etc. I get it. There are many, many benefits. I'm ordering better brakes for my car.

What I'm stating is that dude should not have made a snide remark at another person who stated that you don't need Brembos for track days. Because you most certainly do not.

Assuming the poster who said "Brembos aren't really needed for track days" either does AutoX or group D HPDE isn't snide, but okay. Glad you aren't 100% arguing there aren't benefits.

How many track events do you take part in per year? Just curious why you don't just run RBF and some good pads?

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Unsprung mass is going to be AP. Though the wilwood is lighter then the stoptech because it has the narrowest rotor which is not good for cooling. I think the piston boot is an overblown concern. I know multiple NW'ers that run the AP's year round, no issue. I have also heard guys say the boot will melt, I have the ST kit with the ST-40 calipers. I tore mine down to rebuild them last winter and have had no issues with the boots.

A little bit of less mass on the ring may not impact on the heat capacity, as what normally kills brakes is the accumulation of heat (not often the fade occurs in one brake event).
Edit: most of the cooling is due to a good vane design.

AMS magazine type of testing gives somewhat a fair reference of that, also specific track locations. Regarding piston boot, my sample size may be a little bigger…

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

A little bit of less mass on the ring may not impact on the heat capacity, as what normally kills brakes is the accumulation of heat (not often the fade occurs in one brake event).
Edit: most of the cooling is due to a good vane design.

AMS magazine type of testing gives somewhat a fair reference of that, also specific track locations. Regarding piston boot, my sample size may be a little bigger…

I wasn’t really worried about the mass reduction on the narrower rotor.

You can “overcool” them too. This isn’t really a performance issue, but the larger difference in peaks can cause more aggressive heat checking. We were talking about this in another thread.

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I wasn’t really worried about the mass reduction on the narrower rotor.

You can “overcool” them too. This isn’t really a performance issue, but the larger difference in peaks can cause more aggressive heat checking. We were talking about this in another thread.

Yes. In the end, it will depend on the driver, pad material, bias selected, track and so on. In a case like that, sometimes is better just to add a extra headroom and go for it.

Overcooling is also a scary stuff…

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by s30series

Assuming the poster who said "Brembos aren't really needed for track days" either does AutoX or group D HPDE isn't snide, but okay. Glad you aren't 100% arguing there aren't benefits.

How many track events do you take part in per year? Just curious why you don't just run RBF and some good pads?

I've already answered your question. I plan on time trialing my car with a supercharger, big aero, and likely Hoosier R7s. Will likely autocross it a lot too, so shaving weight will be nice. Haven't done a track event in about 3 years because my wife loves autocross more and gets a little intimidated by track speeds. Before that? Lots. Lots and lots and lots across the mid west, then into Colorado, and now the PNW.

And so you're aware, your original comment absolutely came off as rude. When you state someone is wrong and follow that up by giving a reason like "you must be in Group D", that's attempting to belittle the person. And if you don't agree with that, surely you agree that your comment to me stating "the adults on this forum that actually track their cars" was meant to be demeaning. I don't know you. You might be an excellent driver. Hell, you probably are far above average. Likewise, you don't know me and my extensive history. As I said before, your comment wouldn't not have stated 8 pages of debate if you just said "my experience differs from yours" but you've gone on the attack here.

You continue to avoid the topic now and just question everyone else's ability. It's a shallow attempt to call into question the legitimacy of everyone else's opinion because you can't back up your own.

And if you still want to try to back up your own, I'm still waiting for you to explain how John Heinracy can do 30 minutes at Road America on stock calipers and rotors. I have answered your question twice. Now please answer mine just once.

[s30series]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

I've already answered your question. I plan on time trialing my car with a supercharger, big aero, and likely Hoosier R7s. Will likely autocross it a lot too, so shaving weight will be nice. Haven't done a track event in about 3 years because my wife loves autocross more and gets a little intimidated by track speeds. Before that? Lots. Lots and lots and lots across the mid west, then into Colorado, and now the PNW.

And so you're aware, your original comment absolutely came off as rude. When you state someone is wrong and follow that up by giving a reason like "you must be in Group D", that's attempting to belittle the person. And if you don't agree with that, surely you agree that your comment to me stating "the adults on this forum that actually track their cars" was meant to be demeaning. I don't know you. You might be an excellent driver. Hell, you probably are far above average. Likewise, you don't know me and my extensive history. As I said before, your comment wouldn't not have stated 8 pages of debate if you just said "my experience differs from yours" but you've gone on the attack here.

You continue to avoid the topic now and just question everyone else's ability. It's a shallow attempt to call into question the legitimacy of everyone else's opinion because you can't back up your own.

And if you still want to try to back up your own, I'm still waiting for you to explain how John Heinracy can do 30 minutes at Road America on stock calipers and rotors. I have answered your question twice. Now please answer mine just once.

I stated he was wrong? Weird....I didn't see that in my reply to him. But okay. Didn't know assuming someone was in group D is belittling someone.....

Congrats on your "big aero". Stock calipers will suffice for you. Just get better fluid and pads.

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by s30series

Lol

You have either never been on a track, or you're group D in HPDE

Originally Posted by s30series

Okay bud.

The adults on this forum that regularly track the car and push the vehicle close to it's limits need/want bigger brakes. If you think otherwise you obviously haven't driven the BRZ fast and long enough on a track.

Originally Posted by s30series

I stated he was wrong? Weird....I didn't see that in my reply to him. But okay. Didn't know assuming someone was in group D is belittling someone.....

Congrats on your "big aero". Stock calipers will suffice for you. Just get better fluid and pads.

Original comment was that the 86 Cup series cars in Japan run stock calipers and because of this, brembos aren't really necessary for track days. You chimed in with the above quote. If you don't see how that's rudely calling someone out, everything is much clearer now.

Still waiting for you to answer how John Heinracy can do 30 minutes at Road America on stock calipers and rotors without brake fade if Brembos are necessary for someone driving "fast enough and long enough", then citing HPDE experience. Probably the fifth time you've been asked this question and you won't answer it.

Maybe it's because Brembos aren't necessary for track days.

[soundman98]

you just don't get it do you? s30 is on an entirely different plane of existence you simple minded useless little child.

we couldn't comprehend the level of perfection that he's at no matter how hard we try. for that, we are all condemned to be stuck in group d, eating at the childs table for the rest of our basic little little lives.

John Heinracy couldn't hold a candle to the level of perfection that s30 is, that useless sellout barely knows how to heel toe properly!

[s30series]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

Original comment was that the 86 Cup series cars in Japan run stock calipers and because of this, brembos aren't really necessary for track days. You chimed in with the above quote. If you don't see how that's rudely calling someone out, everything is much clearer now.

Still waiting for you to answer how John Heinracy can do 30 minutes at Road America on stock calipers and rotors without brake fade if Brembos are necessary for someone driving "fast enough and long enough", then citing HPDE experience. Probably the fifth time you've been asked this question and you won't answer it.

Maybe it's because Brembos aren't necessary for track days.

You're moving the goal posts bud.

My original comment was not snide, belittling, nor was it calling the user "wrong".

I simply laughed out loud, which I did, then said he must be group D which means he probably does not know how to utilize the cars braking system hard on tracks that require good brakes.

86 Cup car? What cup car, what class? Spec racing...how does it work!?!?!?!

[s30series]

Originally Posted by soundman98

you just don't get it do you? s30 is on an entirely different plane of existence you simple minded useless little child.

we couldn't comprehend the level of perfection that he's at no matter how hard we try. for that, we are all condemned to be stuck in group d, eating at the childs table for the rest of our basic little little lives.

John Heinracy couldn't hold a candle to the level of perfection that s30 is, that useless sellout barely knows how to heel toe properly!

Who is this and why should I care about him?

Doubt he tracks a stock brake setup BRZ twice a month at AMS, Road Atlanta, and AMP

[x808drifter]

Originally Posted by soundman98

you just don't get it do you? s30 is on an entirely different plane of existence you simple minded useless little child.

we couldn't comprehend the level of perfection that he's at no matter how hard we try. for that, we are all condemned to be stuck in group d, eating at the childs table for the rest of our basic little little lives.

John Heinracy couldn't hold a candle to the level of perfection that s30 is, that useless sellout barely knows how to heel toe properly!

I'm so bad at racing I'm in Group F.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by s30series

Doubt he tracks a stock brake setup BRZ twice a month at AMS, Road Atlanta, and AMP

You have that in common with him then.