Video: Toyota GR86 SPIED for the First Time!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

That's fine but one is a two door coupe and the other is a four door sedan. Different market with different buyers. They could be identical in power to weight and not matter IMO but I don't work for Subaru, so. I would never consider a WRX/STI because I don't like the look.

I think the 86 is fine the way it is but it's time for a "remodel" I'm curious to see what they come up with.

Yes some people care about the difference of a sport looking 2-door coupe and a 4-door performance sedan. However, the figures above say that the majority of people don't care. They are caring more on performance figures like hp or 0-60 and the equipment levels. In fact many previous 86/BRZ owners upgraded to a WRX/STI without mentioning that they were moving to another market category. They were just seeing it as an "upgrade".

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Here is another evidence why Subaru don't want to disturb the sales of its WRX and STI cars with a turbo BRZ:

Subaru of America delivered 21,838 WRX and STI performance models to customers from August 2019 through July 2020.

In the compact sports car segment, Subaru is winning big. Hyundai delivered 8,327 Veloster models, BMW 2 Series (8,015), Mazda MX-5 Miata (7,753), Infiniti Q60 (5,043), Lexus RC (4,591), Volkswagen Golf R (4,223 - 2019), Toyota 86 (3,398), Toyota Supra (2,884), Fiat 124 Spider, (2,646), Nissan 370Z (2,384), Subaru BRZ, (2,334), and Porsche Taycan (130.)

Honda does not split out the Civic Type R from regular Civic sales, so we can’t provide specific numbers. A source close to Honda said in 2018 Honda sold 4,100 Civic Type R, performance models. The Subaru WRX and STI were also the best selling sports car in 2019.

Source: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/hot-...ct-sports-cars

Nah dude. This does not support that they are protecting the WRX sales in any way. There is zero data there to back your claim since there is no turbo BRZ in the mix so they may or may not have sold just as many WRX/STis. Who knows maybe a turbo BRZ in the mix would sell them MORE WRXs!
That list is crossing so many car type lines that it is almost a meaningless comparison. Also leaves out the Mustang and Camaro which blew the Subaru numbers away. If the WRX/Sti are being classed as "sports cars" then the others should be on the list.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yes some people care about the difference of a sport looking 2-door coupe and a 4-door performance sedan. However, the figures above say that the majority of people don't care. They are caring more on performance figures like hp or 0-60 and the equipment levels. In fact many previous 86/BRZ owners upgraded to a WRX/STI without mentioning that they were moving to another market category. They were just seeing it as an "upgrade".

And many of them came back to the Twins after discovering that the "upgrade" really was not there. It is not so much an upgrade as a sideways change of performance. You give up some things to gain others.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yes some people care about the difference of a sport looking 2-door coupe and a 4-door performance sedan. However, the figures above say that the majority of people don't care.

Not sure I follow. To me it just shows the size of the market for the two types of vehicles. You don't know that the people who bought the 4-door even looked at a 2 door. They may have gone into the dealership specifically looking for a 4-door car, which is very likely.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

That’s totally doable with a bit more torque I think. A stock Gen1 on E85 and PS4s can probably pull that off.

Just posting this to troll as it is meaningless to an extent. But in short, I agree.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Here is another evidence why Subaru don't want to disturb the sales of its WRX and STI cars with a turbo BRZ:

Subaru of America delivered 21,838 WRX and STI performance models to customers from August 2019 through July 2020.

In the compact sports car segment, Subaru is winning big. Hyundai delivered 8,327 Veloster models, BMW 2 Series (8,015), Mazda MX-5 Miata (7,753), Infiniti Q60 (5,043), Lexus RC (4,591), Volkswagen Golf R (4,223 - 2019), Toyota 86 (3,398), Toyota Supra (2,884), Fiat 124 Spider, (2,646), Nissan 370Z (2,384), Subaru BRZ, (2,334), and Porsche Taycan (130.)

Honda does not split out the Civic Type R from regular Civic sales, so we can’t provide specific numbers. A source close to Honda said in 2018 Honda sold 4,100 Civic Type R, performance models. The Subaru WRX and STI were also the best selling sports car in 2019.

Source: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/hot-...ct-sports-cars

Theres like 4 different categories of cars.....and a chunk of them dont even compete with each other.....Taycan vs 86...vs WRX....really?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

In the compact sports car segment, Subaru is winning big. Hyundai delivered 8,327 Veloster models, BMW 2 Series (8,015), Mazda MX-5 Miata (7,753), Infiniti Q60 (5,043), Lexus RC (4,591), Volkswagen Golf R (4,223 - 2019), Toyota 86 (3,398), Toyota Supra (2,884), Fiat 124 Spider, (2,646), Nissan 370Z (2,384), Subaru BRZ, (2,334), and Porsche Taycan (130.)

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Theres like 4 different categories of cars.....and a chunk of them dont even compete with each other.....Taycan vs 86...vs WRX....really?

They said in the compact sports car segment. There are sub-categories for sure, but all of them belong to the compact segment.

On a side note, yeah Subaru could try with a turbo BRZ and maybe it could help them to sell even more of WRX's. However, they are a typical conservative Japanese company. They would never risk doing it, especially in a car like WRX that sells quite well ...

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

They said in the compact sports car segment. ...

Say whaa???? If the WRX/STi is a compact sports car then the MX5 should be in the SUB-compact sports car category. Geeezz it's half the size! This is all just marketing hype and so much hog wash. They are comparing pineapples to kumquats and getting people to believe they're all basically the same. Not in my book!

[StE92ve]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

Say whaa???? If the WRX/STi is a compact sports car then the MX5 should be in the SUB-compact sports car category. Geeezz it's half the size! This is all just marketing hype and so much hog wash. They are comparing pineapples to kumquats and getting people to believe they're all basically the same. Not in my book!

Not that I take Wikipedia as the authority but it backs up your statement that it's just marketing....

Sport compact is an American car classification for a high-performance version of an affordable compact car or a subcompact car. There is no precise definition and the description is applied for marketing purposes to a wide variety of models.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

Say whaa???? If the WRX/STi is a compact sports car then the MX5 should be in the SUB-compact sports car category. Geeezz it's half the size! This is all just marketing hype and so much hog wash. They are comparing pineapples to kumquats and getting people to believe they're all basically the same. Not in my book!

Originally Posted by StE92ve

Not that I take Wikipedia as the authority but it backs up your statement that it's just marketing....

Sport compact is an American car classification for a high-performance version of an affordable compact car or a subcompact car. There is no precise definition and the description is applied for marketing purposes to a wide variety of models.

Exactly. Sport compact category contains the sub-compact category. Yeah it might be marketing related, but who said that marketing is not important for company decisions? We were talking about company decisions. Not what a guy in an internet forum thinks about it ...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Exactly. Sport compact category contains the sub-compact category. Yeah it might be marketing related, but who said that marketing is not important for company decisions? We were talking about company decisions. Not what a guy in an internet forum thinks about it ...

But we have no "company decision" on this subject just the opinion of a guy on an internet forum that thinks about it.
There is zero real info that back up or denies the statement that they won't do turbo for fear of losing sales in a totally different car.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

But we have no "company decision" on this subject just the opinion of a guy on an internet forum that thinks about it.
There is zero real info that back up or denies the statement that they won't do turbo for fear of losing sales in a totally different car.

That decision most likely had 2 reasons and it wasnt "to preserve and not cannibalize sales from the WRX"

1.) Whoever was in charge of the project didnt want it.
2.) The FA20 turbo from the WRX doesnt fit as is (its too tall isnt it?). Why would subaru reroute the turbo system just for this car (which sells in small numbers) when they have a mass produced FA20 turbo just being plunked into various other subarus.

Beyond any kind of marketing spin im pretty sure its one of those (or both)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

That decision most likely had 2 reasons and it wasnt "to preserve and not cannibalize sales from the WRX"

1.) Whoever was in charge of the project didnt want it.
2.) The FA20 turbo from the WRX doesnt fit as is (its too tall isnt it?). Why would subaru reroute the turbo system just for this car (which sells in small numbers) when they have a mass produced FA20 turbo just being plunked into various other subarus.

Beyond any kind of marketing spin im pretty sure its one of those (or both)

3) Crash testing the car to certify it with a turbo in north America would add cost
4) The rest of the car would need to be beefed up for higher HP (no matter what so many think it is not "fine" how it is from the manufacture's requirements) raising costs
5) Target sales price requires a cost restriction
6) Emissions and mileage certification test costs way more than people think


Notice any common theme?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

3) Crash testing the car to certify it with a turbo in north America would add cost
4) The rest of the car would need to be beefed up for higher HP (no matter what so many think it is not "fine" how it is from the manufacture's requirements) raising costs
5) Target sales price requires a cost restriction
6) Emissions and mileage certification test costs way more than people think


Notice any common theme?

Yup, every decision has an associated R&D cost related to it which has to be worked in because you cant just plug and play stuff unless it was built like that from the very beginning (and with stuff that exists in the parts bin). It all just gets covered up with PR word salad.

But the internets sees right through it....if the internets can do it, then the manufacturers are stupid NOT to do it. FOLLOW THE INTERNETS!!!!