Camber bolts or crash bolts for max spring perch clearance?

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

From my understanding crash bolts move the entire hub closer to the strut via the top hole which could cause problems, but camber bolts push the lower part of the hub out via that lobe thing, which angles the hub.

Both the crash bolts and lobed bolts work the exact same way, the lobed bolts are just better if you don't want the max negative camber available.


If you look at the front suspension setup, camber bolts in either the top of bottom hole on the strut/knuckle is going to give roughly the same clearance between tire and spring seat.

[churchx]

Bach415: for me (with stock shocks & stock height) camberbolts at both holes: ~ -2.3, +those bushings: ~ -3. If you got -2.5 with just camberbolts, i guess, you are also lowered?

norcalpb: not that permanent, though of course original bushing needs to be pressed out, and powerflex's pressed in, but nothing difficult or long for suspension shop, and they are adjustable when installed too (middle eccentric insert can be turned with provided key, though i just installed at maxed out position (though same with upper camberbolts) and fine-adjustment done only via lower camberbolts, as easiest to access), and though more expensive then camberbolts (£90.90), camberbolts + those bushings still cost less then eg. camberbolts + camberplates. And i couldn't live with later anyway due NVH issues, so was happy to get -3 with still stock rubber topmount.

wparsons: but why do people get slightly more camber when maxed out with lobed camberbolts vs crashbolts? Not by much, but IIRC some extra -0.2 or so .. at least wasn't camberbolt at lower hole + relocated stock "crashbolt" to upper 16mm commonly ~ -2 to -2.1dg?

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by churchx

Bach415: for me (with stock shocks & stock height) camberbolts at both holes: ~ -2.3, +those bushings: ~ -3. If you got -2.5 with just camberbolts, i guess, you are also lowered?

norcalpb: not that permanent, though of course original bushing needs to be pressed out, and powerflex's pressed in, but nothing difficult or long for suspension shop, and they are adjustable when installed too (middle eccentric insert can be turned with provided key, though i just installed at maxed out position (though same with upper camberbolts) and fine-adjustment done only via lower camberbolts, as easiest to access), and though more expensive then camberbolts (£90.90), camberbolts + those bushings still cost less then eg. camberbolts + camberplates. And i couldn't live with later anyway due NVH issues, so was happy to get -3 with still stock rubber topmount.

wparsons: but why do people get slightly more camber when maxed out with lobed camberbolts vs crashbolts? Not by much, but IIRC some extra -0.2 or so .. at least wasn't camberbolt at lower hole + relocated stock "crashbolt" to upper 16mm commonly ~ -2 to -2.1dg?

Would you say there was added NvH from this camber bushing? I have a messed up brain when it comes to modding. I’ll spend $440 on flexible V bars but $180 for something that’ll make my car handle better? No way man lol.

[churchx]

Hmm .. a bit hard to say .. when i installed these powerflex bushings i also installed whiteline anti-dive/caster correction bushing (IIRC KCA434) which is also less compliant .. oh, and as bearing in one of stock topmounts went bad, replacements bought were group-n (also rubber, but more rigid) topmounts. Overall .. yes, slight NVH increase .. but! - by allowing to retain rubber topmounts while still get -3 camber for track (without slotting struts) was my aim and i got it (SPC 81305 & KCA416 camberbolts + that powerflex PF69-801G bushing (PF69-801GB - "black" even less compliant analog of it). And that solved my quest of acceptable compromise between NVH & more camber, as before that i tried many times camberbolts+camberplates, but couldn't solve NVH issues that were above my acceptable treshold. With pillowball camberplates on road defects that moved wheel up sharply (eg. going over rail track, over connections of bridge segments, over potholes or roudbumps with sharp edges (for speed), where road is maintenanced and has sudden height change between old & new tarmac, some types of other roadbumps/holes on generally bad roads here) i got loud hits that sounded like dropping toolbox on concrete and it scared me as to not break something in car. Imho pillowball topmounts vs rubber topmounts is single most NVH inducing bit, relatively to which NVH change of those controlarm bushings is minimal and acceptable.
Probably if pedder topmounts had been out by then, i also would have tried those, but back then those powerflex bushings were only option to get extra camber ontop of camberbolts, as whiteline com-Cs were proven to not work on twins without failing, and pedder's PED-580096 got known (maybe released too) only relatively very recently. Before that bushing options of extra camber were even more limited, with camberplates being only option. And i found out experimentally, that not acceptable option for me. I could also slot struts .. but was against about unreversible mods (that would also make car not MOT inspection passable, if noticed).

[Bach415]

For some reason, it's not letting me quote, so I'll just mention/tag.

@norcalpb You can probably rent a bushing tool from oReillys for free. They will just hold a charge on your card until you return the item (48 hour rent time). I thought about doing it to get to -3 camber, but when I realize I can achieve close to that amount with just camber bolts and natural negative camber from lowering the car, I decided to spend the money on the roll center kit instead. Alternatively, you can always trade your front control arms w/ the powerflex + cash on top if anything were to happen.

Side note: I am running aftermarket coilovers but with the Group N top hats. Almost similar to Churchx's configuration minus the camber bushing, coilovers, and height.

@churchx Yes I am lowered. I honestly do not know how much I am lowered as I didn't measure prior but we are looking at about 3/4"-1" gap from wheel to the fender arch. Also running aftermarket coilovers so I do not have an issue with spring perch.

[botbs]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

I originally had some HVT camber plates but they were a little rough for my DD needs. I ordered Pedders angled rubber top hats hoping I can get at least .7 degrees + whatever natural camber there could possibly be from a 15mm drop.

How do you like your Pedder angled rubber top hats? Any issue so far? How many km you have on the Pedder top hats and HVT camber plates?

Thanks!