Why do most people seem to think castrol edge titanium is a bad choice?

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts

Bitog. Great site for all sorts of oil info and data.

Yeah, but still full of opinions. Although, at least there are some people who really do know what they're talking about on there.

I'm sure the newest/best Castrol, Shell/Pennzoil, and Mobil 1 are all very good. I prefer Mobil 1 because it comes factory fill or is required/highly recommended on lots of high end super/sports cars like the Lexus LFA, Nissan GT-R, Porsches, Mercedes-AMG, McLaren, Corvette, etc.. Plus, it is readily available in 5 quart jugs at Walmart for around 22 bucks.

I tried Shell's newest Pennzoil Ultra on my current car and while it probably does keep your engine cleaner (my oil was less dark after two oil changes) and it may protect it slightly better, nothing seems to give me as much power as the regular Mobil 1 10W-30 in this car. Not to mention, Pennzoil Ultra is not available in 0W-20 for the FR-S/BRZ. So yeah, Mobil 1 seems to have done me well very all these years so I have no reason to switch to something else - especially if it's more money and I have to special order it.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Because color and buttdynos are very important when talking about oil? Don't pretend you have a favorite oil and can tell the difference. Be real.


I buy Motul oil because it's proven to be "good" and for the most part it just makes me feel better that I did my part in maintaining the vehicle.

[Laika]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I buy Motul oil because it's proven to be "good" and for the most part it just makes me feel better that I did my part in maintaining the vehicle.

Yup, this is 99% of choosing an oil. It's not about choosing the best oil, it's choosing the one that makes you the most confident in your engine. Tribology is so complicated that this is more/less the best we can really do.

[StormTrooper]

Strikes me as odd that in the age of information and science we can't find unbiased hard data on which oils are the best for whatever applications.

there has to be a reason one bottle is more expensive aside from the pretty pictures on the outside....

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Strikes me as odd that in the age of information and science we can't find unbiased hard data on which oils are the best for whatever applications.

there has to be a reason one bottle is more expensive aside from the pretty pictures on the outside....

The thing is that oils have gotten so good lately that there's very little difference in certified oils.
Take Amsoil's recent 5W-30 oil study. http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf

Results were verified by an independent third party (you can pay for your own ASTM tests if you'd like to verify) and to me it looks like more of an advertisement for how good Shell/Pennzoil/Quaker State oils are instead of how good Amsoil is.

Note that the Amsoil oil in the comparison is not certified by the API or ILSAC (nor is it submitted to these bodies). Look at how well Castrol Titanium 5W-30 did. It even outperformed Amsoil in the TEOST*! So many people try to judge an oil by a couple of numbers in the product data sheet or one or two random uoa's/voa's.

*Thermo-Oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test (TEOST, ASTM D 6335)
Motor oils can form deposits when exposed to increased heat, reducing efficiency and contributing to poor overall performance. According to the ASTM, the TEOST test method “is designed to predict the high temperature deposit forming tendencies of an engine oil. This test method can be used to screen oil samples or as a quality assurance tool.”
Given the number of vehicles now equipped with direct fuel injection, turbochargers and other performance-enhancing technologies that increase heat, deposit control has taken on increased importance.

GF5 info:
http://www.gf-5.com/the_story/performance/

[smbrm]

Dennis

The debate about which oil is best has been waging from the moment we went from one choice to two.

I doubt it is possible to definitively demonstrate anything as best!
"Best" seems to be a nebulous place lost in the space between fact and perception. Determining the best oil is no different than determining the "best" car!
Selection of anything as best for "oneself" is the sum of your perceived value of the available features and benefits layered within your ability to understand and appreciate their importance!

So as I always say, what's best: it just depends on what you think or know is important!

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Because color and buttdynos are very important when talking about oil? Don't pretend you have a favorite oil and can tell the difference. Be real.

I buy Motul oil because it's proven to be "good" and for the most part it just makes me feel better that I did my part in maintaining the vehicle.

For my car, I have tried many variations of oil over the years in all different conditions and there was a definite, noticeable power increase with the regular Mobil 1 10W-30 over all the others each time I put it in. It is likely due to that oil being slightly thinner at operating temps than the others. It may not technically protect quite as well but when I took my engine apart a couple years ago, it still looked as good as new. And I'm at 140k miles now so that's still pretty good.

For some cars/drivers the difference may be too small or it may be due to other factors but I am confident that for me, in this engine, with that oil, it does make a small difference in power. But in the BRZ/FR-S engine, especially with it being newer and naturally aspirated, the differences might really be too small to tell.

BTW, if there is basically no difference, why special order Motul? Why not just buy the cheapest synthetic 0W-20 at Walmart? People clearly do tend to have their preferences with oil regardless if their reasons are no longer relevant. Such as those who don't want to use Mobil 1 in this car because the old Subaru engines burnt oil faster with their 5W-30 at the time. Obviously that would not be the case anymore as this engine is different, the oil viscosity is different, and Mobil 1 has updated their oils since then.

Anyway, point being, I'm sure Castrol Edge is fine. BMW and Audi/Volkswagen recommend it in their engines now and it has plenty of racing ties.

[smbrm]

Oh, there are diffrences. My point was about "best", not about being different.
The other questions: are the diffrences big or small, and how important are they factually or perceptually?

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Strikes me as odd that in the age of information and science we can't find unbiased hard data on which oils are the best for whatever applications.

there has to be a reason one bottle is more expensive aside from the pretty pictures on the outside....

Unbiased hard data is hard to come by for a couple reasons. One is that this is the internet and unbiased data will get drowned by 1000 opinions you didn't want.

Another is that a truly unbiased opinion would say something like, "it doesn't matter. they're all good enough for what you're doing", but NOBODY wants to hear that.

Everyone wants to believe that there is an engine oil available here in the US that will cause mechanical failure and then choose not to buy that one. But that oil does not exist.

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by Subie

I never said it was bad oil; it isn't. Simply because it's such a popular, widely available oil, there are many who use it because of its image and market presence. Also, it's Mobil 1, not Mobile 1.

My local dollar store sells Mobile 1 Double Full Super Synthetic. Should I not buy it?

-Justin

[Subie]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

My local dollar store sells Mobile 1 Double Full Super Synthetic. Should I not buy it?

-Justin

I don't know much about it, but a little internet trawling tells me it's probably a group III "synthetic." There are much better oils to be had but it probably is sufficient to satisfy the warranty requirements.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

My local dollar store sells Mobile 1 Double Full Super Synthetic. Should I not buy it?

-Justin

Make sure that it at least meets API SM/ILSAC GF4 specs. I doubt it's the newer SN/GF5 stuff.

Originally Posted by Subie

I don't know much about it, but a little internet trawling tells me it's probably a group III "synthetic." There are much better oils to be had but it probably is sufficient to satisfy the warranty requirements.

Whether or not Mobil1 is a Group III synthetic is irrelavent because Group III's have really narrowed the performance gap to PAO's over the years. The only thing that matters it that it meets the proper specs and it does. Mobil1 uses Group III base stocks (their propietary Group III called Visom), Group IV PAO's, and Group V esters and alkalyted napthalenes. Like most companies, they just won't tell you which oils contain which base stocks and most of their oils likely contain a blend of two or three (like all oil companies).
http://news.exxonmobil.com/press-rel...city-louisiana
Jeez, this is my second post defending Mobil1 today and I don't even currently use it! :happy0180:

-Dennis

[Justin.b]

I was joking about the Mobile vs Mobil name. I appreciate you guys being helpful, though.

-Justin

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

BTW, if there is basically no difference, why special order Motul? Why not just buy the cheapest synthetic 0W-20 at Walmart? People clearly do tend to have their preferences with oil regardless if their reasons are no longer relevant. Such as those who don't want to use Mobil 1 in this car because the old Subaru engines burnt oil faster with their 5W-30 at the time. Obviously that would not be the case anymore as this engine is different, the oil viscosity is different, and Mobil 1 has updated their oils since then.

The answer's in what you quoted...and I don't special order it. It's in stock at my favorite local speed shop.