2022 Twin to STR

[steverife]

There is usually a spread of several seconds for trophies at nats. Well driven STR twin will definitely trophy, IMO.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

So I think it will be easy for a twin to trophy in STR? Hell no. Do I think the ND should probably have its own class and put STR back to how it was before 2016 just with the new twins added? Hell yes.

Saw an interesting comment yesterday about just putting the ND in STU. It's as fast or faster than most STU cars currently, might be an interesting shakeup. Probably would never happen though, your idea is better to make everyone happy lol

[Locust]

Originally Posted by steverife

There is usually a spread of several seconds for trophies at nats. Well driven STR twin will definitely trophy, IMO.

Trophy? No problem. Top drivers in GR86s will trophy at nationals easily. My guess is the spread in the trophy positions will be about a 2:1 ratio of ND-2 to ND-1/GR86.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Saw an interesting comment yesterday about just putting the ND in STU. It's as fast or faster than most STU cars currently, might be an interesting shakeup. Probably would never happen though, your idea is better to make everyone happy lol

I would find it funny if they removed the ND out of STR(oadster). The easy button would be to put the new twins in STX. I think we're a couple of seasons out waiting for them to get easier to buy, but seeing the take rate of the new twins at national events is a good sign for having them put it in a competitive class.

[steverife]

I'm totally with Ken that the tune probably isn't going to be enough to put them even with the ND's.

However, I don't think it is a good idea to class them aggressively until a tune is available.

[Breezio]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

I would find it funny if they removed the ND out of STR(oadster). The easy button would be to put the new twins in STX. I think we're a couple of seasons out waiting for them to get easier to buy, but seeing the take rate of the new twins at national events is a good sign for having them put it in a competitive class.

You mean put them in a class they will absolutely dominate?
Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by steverife

However, I don't think it is a good idea to class them aggressively until a tune is available.

Yup, until there is actually a tune... Things will and should stay the same.
All we can do is speculate at this point, but I agree it probably won't pickup too much more power with a tune.

[DocWalt]

Yeah burying all of STX seems like a bad choice. They may as well move the S2k & NC to STX if that happens and move existing STX cars to STS or something, haha.

Seems easier to just move the ND or make it have its own class with the Fiata...

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Saw an interesting comment yesterday about just putting the ND in STU. It's as fast or faster than most STU cars currently, might be an interesting shakeup. Probably would never happen though, your idea is better to make everyone happy lol

STU at NJ Pro was actually running proper STU pace. Same for the big Crows events.

Normally, STU is a joke but seems like fast people are finally running STU again so new twins would get smoked there too.

[DocWalt]

I compared data with some fast NDs from NJ Pro. Ignoring the fact that I don't know how to launch/shift (lol) I was still losing half a tenth or so in pretty much every sector on SoloStorm and we were both using RaceCapture so the data is reliable.

I drove that same ND earlier this year back to back with my car and the car owner did the same with my car. We can get close but never close enough. Still probably going to be 3-ish tenths off of an ND over 60 seconds even once we have a tune, currently it's 4-ish tenths off.

I also autocrossed an ND for the last three years and had an STX RX-8 and an STX BRZ... I've got a lot of experience in these cars and I don't *think* I'm biased, they're all fun :P

[DocWalt]

My videos from NJ Pro. I coned away ~4 tenths on the right, but my left was pretty darn good. Really really liking the car!

Left side:

Right side:

Evan's fast runs, he never felt as comfortable as last weekend and also coned away some time:


Left side:

Right side:

Amy's fast runs, left side data is broken somehow but whatever. She killed it this weekend pulling off 3rd in L3 and 3rd in the Ladies Challenge. Meshing with the car well and learning how to be aggressive with all of the mountains of torque versus our RX-8 last year! Amy found ~5 tenths each side during the challenges too, really proud of her!



Left side:

Right side:

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by Breezio

You mean put them in a class they will absolutely dominate?
Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Like how the ND2 did to STR? Or has been done countless numbers of times in Street classes? Won't be the first or last time a new car comes out and dominates a class for a few years. I understand not wanting to make a car that's hard to purchase THE car to have for a class, but they're clearly popular and will end up in a class they can be competitive in. The first gen twins are in STX, it would be logical to put the second gen in the same class. Plus SSC is still a thing, and I don't foresee it going away any time soon.

[Simmons]

Pic from NJ Pro.

[steverife]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

Like how the ND2 did to STR? Or has been done countless numbers of times in Street classes? Won't be the first or last time a new car comes out and dominates a class for a few years. I understand not wanting to make a car that's hard to purchase THE car to have for a class, but they're clearly popular and will end up in a class they can be competitive in. The first gen twins are in STX, it would be logical to put the second gen in the same class. Plus SSC is still a thing, and I don't foresee it going away any time soon.

The difference between the ND1 and the ND2 are pretty subtle compared to Gen1 and Gen2 twin. And some of those differences are offset once modded.
There are people having success in ND1's in STR and BSP. Those cares are close enough that it would make 0 sense to class them differently. Stock tune Gen2 makes significantly more power than an STX prepped Gen1. We mentioned Charlotte a few times. I know that Simmons is good at prepping cars (he's probably built more ST cars than anyone else in the world), but a brand new platform without a tune was already raw timing 2 guys that trophied at the Finale last year.

Also, if we are looking to kill off a current class leader, STX was making better numbers than STR.

Obviously I'm biased, owning an STX car and probably in a position with this economy where I just quit the sport if my car is no longer competitive, but it is honestly kind of rare that the majority of the new better version owners (especially those familiar with the Gen1) don't want to take over the old car's class. I was really excited for Ken to run his RX8 this year and show that STX isn't a 1 car class and I'm excited to see what Pallotta can do in that car (though we'll try like heck to beat him). ST needs a "cheap" car option that doesn't require junkyard trips to build and maintain.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by steverife

The difference between the ND1 and the ND2 are pretty subtle compared to Gen1 and Gen2 twin. And some of those differences are offset once modded.
There are people having success in ND1's in STR and BSP. Those cares are close enough that it would make 0 sense to class them differently. Stock tune Gen2 makes significantly more power than an STX prepped Gen1. We mentioned Charlotte a few times. I know that Simmons is good at prepping cars (he's probably built more ST cars than anyone else in the world), but a brand new platform without a tune was already raw timing 2 guys that trophied at the Finale last year.

Also, if we are looking to kill off a current class leader, STX was making better numbers than STR.

Obviously I'm biased, owning an STX car and probably in a position with this economy where I just quit the sport if my car is no longer competitive, but it is honestly kind of rare that the majority of the new better version owners (especially those familiar with the Gen1) don't want to take over the old car's class. I was really excited for Ken to run his RX8 this year and show that STX isn't a 1 car class and I'm excited to see what Pallotta can do in that car (though we'll try like heck to beat him). ST needs a "cheap" car option that doesn't require junkyard trips to build and maintain.

The difference between the power in the ND1 and ND2 and the gen 1 and gen 2 cars is roughly the same percentage-wise, and that's accounting for the gen 2 cars being underrated. The chassis is so much the same that almost every part bolts right up.

The first gen cars are dominant in two classes, one of which is a spec class specifically made for the car. They shouldn't have that kind of dominance in multiple classes when the second gen car can barely touch a trophy. I'm still of the belief that SSC should include the gen 1.5 cars as well.