CNET on 86: More power would ruin it

[m.box.design]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

"More power would ruin it"



Lol. No.

Drive an S2000, get out, and convince me that 50 more horsepower would ruin the twin. It's ok if you've changed your mind, but I'll have my key back, thanks.



Ah, yes, the old "Should have bought a heavier car" argument... What's a few hundred or a thousand more pounds? F*ck it, you wanted more power, right? Who cares what it weighs?

All cars have compromises. The opposite could be said about the cars I mentioned. Want a lighter car? Get a Miata/86/BRZ. If the s2000 was so great, why did Honda cut production and not continue on with a refresh?

The lack of power in the 86 is likely the cost of meeting emissions and mpg numbers. Most cars under 50 grand will have compromises, because the investment needs to show reasonable returns to ensure the longevity of production.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by D_Thissen

Dude, how many times do I have to tell you? It was black ice!

What's being black have to do with it?

[Clipdat]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGpFcHTxjZs"]Tina Turner - What's Love Got To Do With It - YouTube[/ame]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

What's being black have to do with it?

[D_Thissen]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

What's being black have to do with it?

Inside joke with @Cole.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by D_Thissen

Inside joke with @Cole.

I was just being racist.

[D_Thissen]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I was just being racist.

Lol my bad. Long day.

[Calvin27]

Originally Posted by m.box.design

If the s2000 was so great, why did Honda cut production and not continue on with a refresh?

The lack of power in the 86 is likely the cost of meeting emissions and mpg numbers.

I think you're eluding that the s2000 stopped production because it could no longer meet Euro IV requirements without a significant redesign. The Euro regs have really killed a lot of good engines. For example the Honda K20A produces as much power as the FA20 matching it in preand post update - the torque curve is dead flat. What gives for a more advanced engine with direct injection? Well if you've done headers the answer is emissions and 2 cats!

I rekon the real question is how can the twins reinvent themselves and provide a broader offering? If you take a page from the Porsche playbook,it's strip it out and add a few performance parts. I rekon there is a case for a more stripped out 86, removing about 150lbs (basic stereo, back seats gone and maybe some otehr lightweight stuff) and possibly adding bigger/better brakes and maybe a factory oil cooler. Slap that as a 'trd special with some horsepower badges and we got a seller. Adding power is not as simple as the DIY garage adding a blower for an OEM manufacturer. I rekon it is not so much about ruining the car, but moreso that it takes a lot more to design it well. Maybe in the next referesh we will see more power. Does anyone know the specifics of the Toyobaru agreement wrt when it expires, or power etc?

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

"More power would ruin it"



Lol. No.

Drive an S2000, get out, and convince me that 50 more horsepower would ruin the twin.

There should be a stickied, closed thread about why it's improper to compare the twins to an s2000. Even used market makes no sense as most twins you can buy still carry a factory warranty, and the car is newer.

The AP1s had a base MSRP of $32,300 (2001), or roughly $42,500 in 2013 money.

The '13 FR-S had an MSRP of $25,600...That's $16,900, or basically a brand new base corolla, in price difference.

Spare everyone that comparison. The S2000 was in a different price bracket from the get go. Less than 5 years from its demise Toyota/Subaru released a car that's damned close in real world performance, with a hardtop, for significantly less money.

[dowroa]

The way I have always ready this statement is the following:

"What was created was a balanced equation. Any changes to any one part required changes to the whole."

In that sense, I get why power could ruin the car. As it is, the car really only needs an oil cooler and possibly brake ducts to run a 20 min HPDE session (2017 PP). I honestly don't know many other cars that close. Also, it is pretty competitive in Solo AutoX, out of the box in Stock and Street Touring.

All of this while being cheap to own, maintain, and fun to drive.

With that stated, thinking about adding power means it no longer works on the track needs cooling. Brakes need to be bigger. Not as safe with the 215 tires, and bigger tires/rims are more expensive.

While I understand this can be a never ending conversation, I believe I get the intent of the statement, and I think I agree.

[Lantana frs]

I don't see adding 40 or 50 hp/torque without wheel, tire, brake upgrade etc. My car will burn the tires off with just an e85 flash.

[rastapete]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

What's being black have to do with it?

Black ice matters

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by rastapete

Black ice matters

Respect

[SuperDave]

if the car didn't have the torque dip, nobody would have ever complained about power. however it's easily tuned out with a proper header thus providing a cheap option to keep all parties satisfied.

[airjonny]

Go drive one with a exhaust and tune and tell me how that's "ruined".