2022 Toyota 86 (Click-bait articles)

[userjack6880]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

I don't see subaru selling something with too much supra influence.

Especially since it'll compete with their lower trim, lower HP, heavy model as well. Which makes no sense in the context of the 86 unless you just want a Supra for the sake of wanting a Supra.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by userjack6880

Especially since it'll compete with their lower trim, lower HP, heavy model as well. Which makes no sense in the context of the 86 unless you just want a Supra for the sake of wanting a Supra.

Based on what has been pointed out in the Supra thread, I think that's the case for most Supra owners...

[userjack6880]

True story. Why spend the money on a Supra when you can get what it actually is, a BMW roadster. Or buy a 15 year old car brand new and get a Z. Or go all American and get a Mustang. Or get a Lexus. Etc... so many better options on paper.

Doesn't make me not want to Supra. It just doesn't make sense for me to spend the money on one.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by userjack6880

True story. Why spend the money on a Supra when you can get what it actually is, a BMW roadster. Or buy a 15 year old car brand new and get a Z. Or go all American and get a Mustang. Or get a Lexus. Etc... so many better options on paper.

Doesn't make me not want to Supra. It just doesn't make sense for me to spend the money on one.

Just to answer something that is obvious for the sake of wasting another post on a regurgitated topic:

Because someone may not like the looks of a BMW roadster or wish to pay as much or want a convertible. They may not want a 15 year old car, or a Z, or a heavy Mustang, or a heavy and expensive Lexus. Which options are better on paper? I’m sure paper stats will be the defining factor for most buyers.

[userjack6880]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Just to answer something that is obvious for the sake of wasting another post on a regurgitated topic:

Because someone may not like the looks of a BMW roadster or wish to pay as much or want a convertible. They may not want a 15 year old car, or a Z, or a heavy Mustang, or a heavy and expensive Lexus. Which options are better on paper? I’m sure paper stats will be the defining factor for most buyers.

That's the point I was trying to make. Specs on paper aren't everything. People buy on looks, performance, features, luxury, brand, price, etc. The Supra isn't a convertible, doesn't have 430-460 HP out of the gate, isn't particularly luxurious, honestly is heavy for what it is, etc.. there's just so many better options out there if you are looking at particular specs. And the back-of-the-mind fear in a lot of buyers regarding a new platform with BMW involved.

You have to want the car to justify it. It's not an inherently bad car - there's just a lot of people who don't understand and don't want to understand it.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by userjack6880

That's the point I was trying to make. Specs on paper aren't everything. People buy on looks, performance, features, luxury, brand, price, etc. The Supra isn't a convertible, doesn't have 430-460 HP out of the gate, isn't particularly luxurious, honestly is heavy for what it is, etc.. there's just so many better options out there if you are looking at particular specs. And the back-of-the-mind fear in a lot of buyers regarding a new platform with BMW involved.

You have to want the car to justify it. It's not an inherently bad car - there's just a lot of people who don't understand and don't want to understand it.

I don't think it is that heavy for what it is. Even Lotus, who is known for their lightweight sports cars, are currently pushing 3100-3200lbs. With current safety standards, emission control, and electronic driver aid requirements the era of flyweight cars is going away. I wouldn't be surprised to see a second gen twin gain 100-200 pounds without getting any significant performance improvement.

[userjack6880]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I don't think it is that heavy for what it is. Even Lotus, who is known for their lightweight sports cars, are currently pushing 3100-3200lbs. With current safety standards, emission control, and electronic driver aid requirements the era of flyweight cars is going away. I wouldn't be surprised to see a second gen twin gain 100-200 pounds without getting any significant performance improvement.

It was more of a counterpoint to the Mustangs being heavy - the GT is within 300 lbs of a Supra. If you wanna call the Mustang heavy, then the Supra is too.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by userjack6880

It was more of a counterpoint to the Mustangs being heavy - the GT is within 300 lbs of a Supra. If you wanna call the Mustang heavy, then the Supra is too.

Oh I gotcha. I don't really think cars like the Mustang or Camaro are that heavy for what they are. 1000lbs sounds like a lot, but then in relation to the twin we are talking more then twice the HP.

[WolfpackS2k]

When you get to a certain point I really don't care how much power a car makes. Heavier cars have heavier consumables, and slower reaction times. You can throw electronic system bandaids at those cars to make them perform better, but if you do that to a smaller lighter car you'll always be ahead.

But back to speed. I've always found a 10:1 power ratio to be enough for me. Fast enough on track to keep things interesting, and usually in a car that is far more capable than my driving ability ever will be. People that will never take a car on track and just want to get pinned into the back of their seat every once in a while - well they have a million options available to them.

Sadly people that want sub 3000 lb RWD cars get screwed unless you're spending $60k (for something new)

[MaverickMonk]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Sadly people that want sub 3000 lb RWD cars get screwed unless you're spending $60k (for something new)

Yup. I'm really liking my cheap, 100k mile brz. But when I think "What's next" I get a bit sad because... there's nothing. At least nothing I could daily for 8 years like I intend. Not unless I scrounge up 35k for a lower mileage Porsche.

The options are:

• Newer BRZ + FI + motor replacement fund
• Learn to not think the C5 corvette is the whitebread of cars everywhere except the track? Man they perform so well on the track but crap are they dull to look at, sit in, drive in traffic, etc. Maybe I could convince myself to love them someday.
• Buy a 10 year old Cayman and drive it until it's old enough to drink, try not to go bankrupt.

Just not much out there.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

When you get to a certain point I really don't care how much power a car makes. Heavier cars have heavier consumables, and slower reaction times. You can throw electronic system bandaids at those cars to make them perform better, but if you do that to a smaller lighter car you'll always be ahead.

But back to speed. I've always found a 10:1 power ratio to be enough for me. Fast enough on track to keep things interesting, and usually in a car that is far more capable than my driving ability ever will be. People that will never take a car on track and just want to get pinned into the back of their seat every once in a while - well they have a million options available to them.

Sadly people that want sub 3000 lb RWD cars get screwed unless you're spending $60k (for something new)

A lot of it comes down to what kind of driver you are IMO. I know a lot of people at the track don't seem to appreciate momentum cars. They like the whole point and shoot deal, to them the extra heft is not really noticeable. I like being forced to conserve momentum. But on the other hand it wouldn't hurt my feelings to be stuck with 3800lb/425hp either I love my BRZ as if I stick it into the wall I can afford to replace it.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by userjack6880

That's the point I was trying to make. Specs on paper aren't everything. People buy on looks, performance, features, luxury, brand, price, etc. The Supra isn't a convertible, doesn't have 430-460 HP out of the gate, isn't particularly luxurious, honestly is heavy for what it is, etc.. there's just so many better options out there if you are looking at particular specs. And the back-of-the-mind fear in a lot of buyers regarding a new platform with BMW involved.

You have to want the car to justify it. It's not an inherently bad car - there's just a lot of people who don't understand and don't want to understand it.

Actually it has plenty of power. Can you name a car that is lighter with more power in that price? Or name something that can do 600 whp+ with simple bolt ons, a tune and e85 for that price?

The drivetrain isn’t that new. The B58 has been out for a while and the ZF8 is proven.

[NoHaveMSG]

The C8 base is supposed to be 59K. If you can actually find one for sticker that is.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

The C8 base is supposed to be 59K. If you can actually find one for sticker that is.

Give it another year and you will be able to get them discounted. Still too soon at this point though.