Hyundai Veloster N vs FT86

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

In your opinion, that's fair. The FoST is definitely a bit on the heavy side, but it actually does have a (brake-biased) limited slip, so if you're getting a lot of wheel spin you're driving another car, or overheating the brakes.

Keep in mind, it only mimics a limited slip using the brakes. Mechanically, the Focus ST has a 100% open differential. These systems can work "okay" on the street, but I've always found on track they are quite awful. In addition, you have a system that's heating the brakes all the way through corner exit which obviously this degrades pad life and worse can lead to brake fade even with dedicated track pads.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Sounds like he needs to work on his driving. All Integras are excellent handling FWD cars, regardless of the variant.

Damn right

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I saw a Veloster N last night in person finally. It looks so slick in and is much smaller than I imagined. Really like the design and the rear wing.

idunnnnnoooooo man. It ugly.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

idunnnnnoooooo man. It ugly.

Lol looks are a subjective thing

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Lol looks are a subjective thing

BEHOLD THE FACE OF BEAUTY.

He is, shall I say... FIERCE.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Space


//

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Close to CTR money. I'd just go straight to CTR and forget about this thing.

So much this ^

I couldn’t imagine spending that much on a Hyundai hot hatch. I don’t care how far they’ve come since the old Accent/Tiburon days (thinking of those cars makes me want to vomit). They are the press and online media darlings but I still think they suck.
Honda has never made any cars that crappy. Ever.
I would buy the CTR all day every day. Or the even better choice would be a BRZ Limited with Performance Pack. F*** the G damn track times that mean pretty much nothing. And I would say the same thing if the BRZ had the fastest time.


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[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Keep in mind, it only mimics a limited slip using the brakes. Mechanically, the Focus ST has a 100% open differential. These systems can work "okay" on the street, but I've always found on track they are quite awful. In addition, you have a system that's heating the brakes all the way through corner exit which obviously this degrades pad life and worse can lead to brake fade even with dedicated track pads.



Damn right

this is what killed the ST for me. a factory mechanical LSD wouldn't have added any more than $1500 to the final cost of the car. and no one would have batted an eye.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by JesseG

So much this ^

I couldn’t imagine spending that much on a Hyundai hot hatch. I don’t care how far they’ve come since the old Accent/Tiburon days (thinking of those cars makes me want to vomit). They are the press and online media darlings but I still think they suck.
Honda has never made any cars that crappy. Ever.
I would buy the CTR all day every day. Or the even better choice would be a BRZ Limited with Performance Pack. F*** the G damn track times that mean pretty much nothing. And I would say the same thing if the BRZ had the fastest time.


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Good luck finding a CTR at MSRP. The Veloster N can be had at under MSRP with the profromance pack which puts the CTR at 7-8k minimum more. Not denying it's the not the better car but imo it's not worth the extra $$$. Looks can be polorizing a bit but the N trim has grown on me. Like it best in white and their signature light blue

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[conehead]

I'll throw in that the Focus platform cars had the best handling because of the rear suspension design, which the new model doesn't have. It has lost its magic. If you are shopping for a new hot hatch, I can't really see anything beating the Civic. Dat stylin doe, fuuuu. It is also way bigger than the last gen Civic.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by conehead

I'll throw in that the Focus platform cars had the best handling because of the rear suspension design, which the new model doesn't have.

How do you figure? It (including the ST and RS) has a trailing arm torsion blade. That is literally the same design seen on 1950's VW Bug. This type of suspension design is done solely to save money.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Honda has never made any cars that crappy. Ever.

lol are you forgetting about the 9th gen Civic? It got ranked behind the Elantra.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ratings-24705/

In this test, Hyundai proves it can build an economy sedan that's greater than the sum of its parts — and beat Honda at the game it started.

https://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/elan...ison-test.html


How about all the automatic transmissions that blew up in the 00's?
https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/201...em-to-persist/
https://www.pri.org/stories/2011-08-...ission-problem


Honda has highs as good as the best of them, S2k's are retaining value better than Boxsters or Z3's after 20 years, ITR's are silly money, but their lows are just like anybody else.

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Good luck finding a CTR at MSRP.

Hype is over, I only found 1 marked up in the area, the rest are listed at MSRP according to Cargurus.

https://www.hondaofstevenscreek.com/...15cf86aa02.htm

Getting a VN is still saving you >$7k even at sticker prices, but there's only 1 in the area vs. over a dozen CTR's. The next closest VN is in effing Bakersfield...
Edit: CTR's are starting to pop up used though, but at $33k I'd be fine financing the difference.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Keep in mind, it only mimics a limited slip using the brakes. Mechanically, the Focus ST has a 100% open differential. These systems can work "okay" on the street, but I've always found on track they are quite awful. In addition, you have a system that's heating the brakes all the way through corner exit which obviously this degrades pad life and worse can lead to brake fade even with dedicated track pads.

Oh yeah, I'm well aware. Every time I read "brake biased" LSD I can't help but laugh. They're a disaster on the track. Very cheap. Sadly almost every uses them these days.

FYI a Quaife LSD is a dealer installed option.

[conehead]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

How do you figure? It (including the ST and RS) has a trailing arm torsion blade. That is literally the same design seen on 1950's VW Bug. This type of suspension design is done solely to save money.

Me thinks you are very confused sir. You could have unconfused yourself with a quick search.



The focus platform used a unique multilink independent design that ford developed. It was made to toe in as it compressed and gave the car really nice balance. I can't remember what they named it.


Most fwd cars use a simple torsion beam, which is the cheapest. The new focus and fiesta are switching to this.



Bugs used some kind of swing axle.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by conehead

Me thinks you are very confused sir. You could have unconfused yourself with a quick search.



The focus platform used a unique multilink independent design that ford developed. It was made to toe in as it compressed and gave the car really nice balance. I can't remember what they named it.


Most fwd cars use a simple torsion beam, which is the cheapest. The new focus and fiesta are switching to this.



Bugs used some kind of swing axle.

Sounds like you are the confused one. We are not talking about a simple torsion beam. You realize there's different ways to do a multi-link right? This is how Ford does theirs in the Focus: "Ford's so-called Control Blade brand of trailing arm multilink suspension is in use here. The thin trailing arm, a.k.a. the Control Blade (yellow), handles two degrees of freedom — fore-aft wheel location and brake-torque reaction — which means that only three other links are needed to fully locate the wheel, none of which we can see clearly in this view."

Here's edmunds break-down of the Focus ST's suspension. https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/...alkaround.html

This control blade (seen in yellow) is used to located the suspension forward and aft during it's travel:



VW Beetle's from the 1950's/60's use the same design (control blade) to control forward and aft movement. It's a cost saving procedure as opposed to a true multi-link system. It should be fairly clear from the picture to see how the control blade would lead to a lot of flex when subjected to high loads.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by JesseG

So much this ^

I couldn’t imagine spending that much on a Hyundai hot hatch. I don’t care how far they’ve come since the old Accent/Tiburon days (thinking of those cars makes me want to vomit). They are the press and online media darlings but I still think they suck.
Honda has never made any cars that crappy. Ever.
I would buy the CTR all day every day. Or the even better choice would be a BRZ Limited with Performance Pack. F*** the G damn track times that mean pretty much nothing. And I would say the same thing if the BRZ had the fastest time.


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I'm curious to see Hyundai's rumored MR car. As a company, I think they are making a lot of the right choices regarding enthusiasts.

They really took it to heart what Han said about their cars.