That engine though. Where will it sit among the great 4cyl NA's?

[ZDan]

As far as *stock* n.a. 4-cylinders, I think this FA24(?) 2.4 liter is going to be up there. Hell, I think the FA20 is up there! FA24 is looking to be a good improvement in performance and street tractability.

But for me, F20C is top of the list. Again, for a *stock* na 4...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

So expecting to be able to use 3500-5500 is now looked down upon as wanting 'easy power'? Bit harsh, and feel more like an excuse for the torque hole.

I call 2-5.5k that daily driving, and the fact your stating you stick under 3500 (basically what is asked of us to do during engine break-in) for your daily drive is a real shame in my eyes, and shouldn't be viewed as all a real "enthusiast" needs. :/

The torque doesn't go away it just drops 10% for 500rpm. It isn't 2K gap like the graphs look like. You spend way too much time looking at numbers (half of which you pull out of your ass) and not realities.
Where exactly do you get to drive the car in the top of the range all the time? No wonder you are confused on when to shift.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Don't forget the K24.

Depends on your criteria. Stock unmodified street car it is fine. You start to track or autoX it, even with just light bolt on's and a tune and you run into reliability issues. And as I stated above, if you are a DIY'er they are a pain in the ass to work on.

I'm just focusing on NA I guess.

If you are going forced induction, any high compression engine is frustrating right. But on the other hand the power made NA with the emissions restrictions and the high compression makes NA tuning as cheap as its ever been with headers and e85 and cheap tuning chips.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The torque doesn't go away it just drops 10% for 500rpm. It isn't 2K gap like the graphs look like. You spend way too much time looking at numbers (half of which you pull out of your ass) and not realities.
Where exactly do you get to drive the car in the top of the range all the time? No wonder you are confused on when to shift.

I owned the car for 7 years. I know what I'm talking about.

If I'm being honest with you, I feel you are really disingenuous around the OG engine and I think your recent purchase is coloring your view of the new car.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Blighty

I'm just focusing on NA I guess.

If you are going forced induction, any high compression engine is frustrating right. But on the other hand the power made NA with the emissions restrictions and the high compression makes NA tuning as cheap as its ever been with headers and e85 and cheap tuning chips.

Comparatively not really, and having DI and PI is a game changer for the FA which helps a lot with high compression. Engine can't knock if there isn't fuel charged air in the cylinder until the last second. A junkyard K motor will make more power over a broader curve with the same bolt on's. Plus they are cheap and reliable, things the FA is not when driven hard. Plus they are easy to work on and have more overhead for more power NA while being cheaper to build. There is a reason they are a popular swap, even for the S2K over the F20C.

If the FA had more stable oil pressure and I didn't have fear of the rocker arms hitting the "eject" button at random I wouldn't shit on it so much

I don't think it is awful but it has some pretty glaring flaws.

[Swift]

As an actual mechanic:


Bought my wife's 2015 subaru legacy on purpose because the oil control rings were apparently different and different part number. Still doesn't prevent it from randomly burning a quart of oil in 3000miles if I pull a light trailer...or ..maybe downshift with the paddles. Who knows. Fuck Subaru in that regards ...and the cvt is shit.


So as far as opposed Subaru engines go....yeah...no thank you.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Comparatively not really, and having DI and PI is a game changer for the FA which helps a lot with high compression. Engine can't knock if there isn't fuel charged air in the cylinder until the last second. A junkyard K motor will make more power over a broader curve with the same bolt on's. Plus they are cheap and reliable, things the FA is not when driven hard. Plus they are easy to work on and have more overhead for more power NA while being cheaper to build. There is a reason they are a popular swap, even for the S2K over the F20C.

If the FA had more stable oil pressure and I didn't have fear of the rocker arms hitting the "eject" button at random I wouldn't shit on it so much

I don't think it is awful but it has some pretty glaring flaws.

Yeah I've heard of those complaints before - re oil pressure inside the engine, and the rocker arm, conrods (on boost).

But all engines have issues. K's are no different.

It will be interesting to see if toyota/subaru have listened to feedback and fixed more of the car. Engine torque/performance and Handling wise (front turn in that is) seems to be what we know that they have gone after, which is perfect. I'd be interested if they really wanted to perfect that na boxer engine before they have to move to next gen platforms. I feel like they would, and can't wait to see the tech breakdown.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Yeah I've heard of those complaints before - re oil pressure inside the engine, and the rocker arm, conrods (on boost).

But all engines have issues. K's are no different.

It will be interesting to see if toyota/subaru have listened to feedback and fixed more of the car. Engine torque/performance and Handling wise (front turn in that is) seems to be what we know that they have gone after, which is perfect. I'd be interested if they really wanted to perfect that na boxer engine before they have to move to next gen platforms. I feel like they would, and can't wait to see the tech breakdown.

Lol okay. Meanwhile I am going to hunt for another spare engine. I'm down to just the one in the car and that makes me nervous.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Lol okay. Meanwhile I am going to hunt for another spare engine. I'm down to just the one in the car and that makes me nervous.

lol.

What boost are you running?

Also - https://www.flatironstuning.com/suba...shim-fa20-fa24

Found this about the current FA24F, not sure how much is applicable to the new FA24D (if its called that).

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Blighty

lol.

What boost are you running?

Also - https://www.flatironstuning.com/suba...shim-fa20-fa24

Found this about the current FA24F, not sure how much is applicable to the new FA24D (if its called that).

Not running boost, exhaust, intake, and tune. Wasn’t even at redline when it went, just short shifted from 3rd to 4th at 6000-6200ish rpm.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sasquachulator]

I dont think the FA20 is universally praised as a top engine for various reasons.

I'd say its a good engine, but not a great one.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Not running boost, exhaust, intake, and tune. Wasn’t even at redline when it went, just short shifted from 3rd to 4th at 6000-6200ish rpm.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nasty. Is there a way to check when the rockers go out of alignment and fix it?

Interestingly, there were problems with 3-4 gear changes in some cars just a bit higher than those revs. Is that why you short shifted - you get the grind?

[DarkSunrise]

I’d say good, not great is a fair description for a stock fa20. I think most of the hate is from:

1. Non-owners who don’t realize the torque dip means it should be driven like a vtec Honda (4800-7400 powerband)
2. Non-owners who only compare it to a f/k series or <insert generic 2.0 turbo>
3. Owners who’ve blown up their engine

At the end of the day, it’s a high compression, 100+ hp\l NA engine. Can’t really go that wrong. Maybe it’s because I haven’t blown up my engine yet despite 30-35 track days on it, but I enjoy revving it out. Even the sound is growing on me now that I’ve blocked off the sound tube and am using a 2017 oem header. And running e85, I’d definitely consider it for the top 5. It’s for that reason I agree with the OP’s premise that the fa24 might end up being a great engine. It potentially will feel very similar to an e85 fa20. Hopefully Toyota/Subaru will have addressed the reliability concerns. Time will tell.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

I owned the car for 7 years. I know what I'm talking about.

If I'm being honest with you, I feel you are really disingenuous around the OG engine and I think your recent purchase is coloring your view of the new car.

No I have said the same thing for 6 years. The new engine coming out does not change my view that the torque dip on the old one is blown way out of proportion.