Fire suppresion system

[blsfrs]

Any body use this product?


https://www.blazecutusa.com/

[gt5759]

I wouldn't recommend anything like that for motorsports, I've had close friends on fire in a race car. At the very bare minimum use this
https://competitionmotorsport.com/li...e-extinguisher

[Espi]

local track brz/86 group recommended me this setup and its what I went with also. So far so good.



https://www.walmart.com/ip/Kidde-Aut...ated/737567556

Mounted to:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015G3QXMY...roduct_details

good luck!

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by gt5759

I wouldn't recommend anything like that for motorsports, I've had close friends on fire in a race car. At the very bare minimum use this
https://competitionmotorsport.com/li...e-extinguisher

4th line from the bottom

These are NOT approved or intended for use as motorsports-sanctioned fire suppression systems.

they also aren't rated for electrical fires. which, if i'm not mistaken, our vehicles still have an electrical system

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by soundman98

4th line from the bottom



they also aren't rated for electrical fires. which, if i'm not mistaken, our vehicles still have an electrical system

The lifelines are still highly rated for HPDE, they are not approved for racing organizations because of all the residue they leave behind. I am not really worried about electrical fire, I am worried about the open window in the block dumping oil on a header that runs under the engine. I got lucky when I lost an engine and the rod came out the top of the block and didn't dump too much oil.

[Kelse92]

I put this in my race car. Best bang for the buck.
https://discoveryparts.com/spa-techn...ter-steel.html

[gt5759]

I should have worded my response differently as in a bare minimum recommendation for HPDE usage.
As for actual motorsports usage the Lifeline 201 AFFF is not certified, which is also what makes it affordable, but it's also not due to it being AFFF (Aqueous Film Forming Foam). If a person is going to by a certified hand held then https://competitionmotorsport.com/li...d-extinguisher would be a way to go as that is ABC rated, none directional usage, bottle is designed to be in a abusive motorsports environment and is a clean agent as well. Also a person needs to check the GCR of the sanctioning body they run with to verify if a handheld is legal vs using a fixed system in the car and what size they are required to have in a hand held or fixed system.
I interpreted the question on the suggested item, as with most HPDE drivers I am around, wanting to be safe but not having much for the budget.

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by gt5759

I wouldn't recommend anything like that for motorsports, I've had close friends on fire in a race car. At the very bare minimum use this
https://competitionmotorsport.com/li...e-extinguisher

But they are recommended for motorsports.


https://www.flameout.com.au/blazecut

[gt5759]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

But they are recommended for motorsports.


https://www.flameout.com.au/blazecut

The manufacturing company recommends the usage, yes. Is it recommended and tested by racing sanctioning bodies? Not that I know of.
Would it work as they say? I'm willing to bet it does. The only problem I see with something as this is it only covers one particular spot and has to be directly in the fire to melt the capsule to discharge. Would the said item be a good addition to a bottle or system? You bet but I feel that money could be better spent in a proper system and being those Blazecuts are as much as a proper hand held fire bottle I don't feel the bang for buck is the same.
I would say food for thought though is a full suppression system is only about $450, a proper fire bottle is about $300.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by gt5759

I should have worded my response differently as in a bare minimum recommendation for HPDE usage.
As for actual motorsports usage the Lifeline 201 AFFF is not certified, which is also what makes it affordable, but it's also not due to it being AFFF (Aqueous Film Forming Foam). If a person is going to by a certified hand held then https://competitionmotorsport.com/li...d-extinguisher would be a way to go as that is ABC rated, none directional usage, bottle is designed to be in a abusive motorsports environment and is a clean agent as well. Also a person needs to check the GCR of the sanctioning body they run with to verify if a handheld is legal vs using a fixed system in the car and what size they are required to have in a hand held or fixed system.
I interpreted the question on the suggested item, as with most HPDE drivers I am around, wanting to be safe but not having much for the budget.

That makes more sense then what I was told considering I had seen other AFFF extinguishers that were legal.

I was told originally the push was to go to halon to put less residue on the track. I have a small crappy extinguisher in the trunk, I planed on ditching it for the lifeline and possibly do a suppression system in the bay given the nature of boxers. At 3-400 bucks, worth it after seeing a couple cars nearly burn to the ground.

[Matt93SE]

Lots of misinformation here, and the answer depends on what you're doing with the car. In short, there is a vast difference between "fire extinguisher" and "fire suppression system".

Racing in lower prep level classes, you are allowed a simple fire extinguisher of type XXX and minimum size YYY. In higher prep classes, most sanctioning bodies require a fire suppression system, and those systems need to be certified to SFI of FIA standards and will be either AFFF or a HALON equivalent. Dry chem or straight water are not accepted.

Handheld fire extinguishers don't do anything automatically. The driver has to stop, get out, and then dismount the handheld and discharge at the source of the fire. Often this means the car is beyond help by the time you stop from >100mph on a hot track.

Fire suppression systems can be auto triggered by a temp sensor (wax bulb that melts), or manually fired by a driver or course worker pulling a cable/ pushing a button. If the car catches fire on track, a suppression system *suppresses* the fire with the intent of keeping the driver safe. They do not require the driver to get out and spray a bottle at the car to put out a fire. Reduced damage to the vehicle is great, but the car is secondary to getting the driver to safety. The discharge nozzles should be placed mainly in the driver area, then in other areas at risk of fire- inside the engine bay near fuel and exhaust areas, and inside the trunk around any fuel lines and/or entry points. These systems come in a few sizes of basically 5 and 10lb canisters of either AFFF or X and Y pounds of HALON or equivalent.

These little 'fire suppression sticks' linked by the OP fall kinda in between due to their size. They do automatically actuate and can go off while the car is moving without driver intervention - that's good. But because they only contain a small amount of agent, they're not going to cover a huge volume and wont' put out an engine fire if you blow an engine on track at 100mph and spray oil all over the exhaust. There's just too much fuel for anything to be effective in that case. These would be great in the trunk area or under the dash, but wouldn't put out a blaze in the cabin caused by an oil/fuel fire under the hood.

Now to discuss the various suppressant chemicals.

HALON/ NOVEC and its equivalents are good solution for cars because they leave no residue and won't damage electronics. They work by displacing oxygen in the area so the fuel has no air to burn. HOWEVER that also means they take oxygen away from the driver, so the driver better be able to hold their breath between the time they discharge and vehicle exit. if you pull the pin while doing 120 on a straightaway and look for a safe place to stop, it feel like an eternity!

Dry chem systems are basically useless in a suppression system due to the plumbed lines and inability to push a powder down long skinny lines. Handheld bottles work OK with the short nozzles. They are a mess to clean up and will damage electronics they directly touch, but won't really harm the wiring.

AFFF systems are the most common ones used in race cars due to the low cost and the ability to cover larger areas. The *typical* fire mode in cars is due to hydrocarbon leaks and the fluid catching fire.. this stuff sits on a surface and the vapors burn. Therefore AFFF which dumps a layer of foam on the surface separates the hydrocarbon from oxygen and thus the fire goes out as long as you can keep the layer of foam there. Electrical shorts are also problems, but usually the fire goes out on them once you shut off power and reduce the heat to the problem. Again, the goal isn't to keep the car alive but to give the driver time to get to safety.
AFFF is 97% water, so sure it will damage open electronics if you get it on there. but did the driver live? I'll happily pay the bill to replace my car if it keeps me alive.


NOW for the different use cases:
For HPDE, nothing is *required* so anything above "hope for the best and bail out of the car" is great. these little sticks would be fine. handheld bottle would be fine too, but they're not going to do much if the car is fully engulfed.


Regarding discharge of any of these on the track--- I'm good friends with the managers at my local track and have worked corners for a number of groups over the last ~20 years... Corner stations are usually equipped with a 20lb water can and a 20lb dry chem. They are used as needed without regard to cleanup efforts [u]in order to protect people[/i]. they're not going to blow 10 bottles on a raging car fire if the driver is standing safely away from the car. They'll pop one or two bottles and if the fire is too big or becomes unsafe to the workers to try to fight, they're going to back up and wait for a fire truck to come and put it out, then the flatbed will drag away the carnage after it cools off.

WHEN that fire truck comes, the track's trucks are usually equipped with AFFF, and they use it on any vehicle fire- with possible exception of a hybrid car and I don't know what the process is there (it's irrelevant to the discussion on this forum anyway...) Track safety workers will also use AFFF to wash away oil spills because it has great surfactant properties and doesn't leave nasty residue behind. it's faster, easier, and cheaper to hose down an oil spill with AFFF and get the track going green again than to put out 1000lb of kitty litter and sweep it up. So honestly the track doesn't care what you use in your car since it's the smallest bit of potential collateral damage if your car is on track and beginning to burn.

hope that cleared a few things up..

[NoHaveMSG]

Thanks for the clarification @Matt93SE. Lots of good info. A lot of what I heard was from other track day goers and it kinda made sense.