follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB

Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB Problems, issues, recalls, TSBs


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-12-2019, 01:20 PM   #1
Natedawg
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Drives: 2013 FRS
Location: Ohio
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Valve Spring Recall > Spun Bearing

Just thought I would add my experience so far with this valve spring recall, as I'm starting to see a couple other people here with similar experiences. I brought my car into my local Toyota dealership, they completed the recall in about 3 days. Then ~300 miles later I hear a hear a rattling noise while driving on the highway. Car proceeds to completely die and leave me stranded.

Luckily the dealership has had really good customer service and sent a truck to pick up my car. Turns out that I have a spun bearing and Toyota is going to cover the repair which requires a new short block.

I don't blame Toyota or the dealership here, as they both are doing everything they can to fix the issues, including providing a loaner car ect. It just sucks that Subaru screwed us over with these valve springs which require a engine teardown to fix (honestly how do you even manufacture bad valve springs? its a freaking spring..)

Right now I wish I could opt to put a real toyota engine in my car and not another FA20, can't say I'd buy another Subaru built car after all of this.
Natedawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 01:24 PM   #2
Stang70Fastback
A.K.A. Starlord
 
Stang70Fastback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: 2015 Series.Blue
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,815
Thanks: 836
Thanked 2,056 Times in 820 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natedawg View Post
It just sucks that Subaru screwed us over with these valve springs which require a engine teardown to fix (honestly how do you even manufacture bad valve springs? its a freaking spring..)

Right now I wish I could opt to put a real toyota engine in my car and not another FA20, can't say I'd buy another Subaru built car after all of this.
Subaru can't help it if outside suppliers provide/use faulty/sub-par metal in the manufacture of the components they use in their engines. Supplier issues happen. Likewise, I don't blame Subaru for the Takata recall. I mean, airbags have existed for decades, right? Should be simple enough to make one that doesn't murder people!

Doesn't matter how good you are at making something as simple as a spring, if the metal you use to make them is defective to begin with. If it was a manufacturing defect, these things happen too. It sucks that this happened to be a part buried in the engine, and not, say, a lower control arm or some-such, but that's the luck of the draw. The design wasn't faulty.
__________________
.

Check out my blog, read all about my BRZ adventures, and oogle my sweet cell-phone photos!
You can also find me on Instagram, and on Facebook.
Stang70Fastback is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Stang70Fastback For This Useful Post:
finch1750 (02-13-2019), Gunman (02-12-2019), Koa (02-25-2019), Tcoat (02-12-2019)
Old 02-12-2019, 01:44 PM   #3
Tcoat
He who smelt it...
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 65,507
Thanks: 58,040
Thanked 98,764 Times in 42,917 Posts
Mentioned: 2395 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback View Post
Subaru can't help it if outside suppliers provide/use faulty/sub-par metal in the manufacture of the components they use in their engines. Supplier issues happen. Likewise, I don't blame Subaru for the Takata recall. I mean, airbags have existed for decades, right? Should be simple enough to make one that doesn't murder people!

Doesn't matter how good you are at making something as simple as a spring, if the metal you use to make them is defective to begin with. If it was a manufacturing defect, these things happen too. It sucks that this happened to be a part buried in the engine, and not, say, a lower control arm or some-such, but that's the luck of the draw. The design wasn't faulty.

This ^

Not to mention that this was a voluntary recall on Subarus part. They were not forced to do it they just did. They could just as easily just said screw you to everybody that had the potential issue and made them pay for a new engine when it went. There are millions and millions of Subarus driving around out there that are problem free so this is not an indication of their whole production or quality.


I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work? Was it just coincidence that the infamous 2013 spun bearing issue happened after the work? On the bright side it means the engine get's replaced for free instead of out of pocket which is what would have happened if the bearing spun before the work was done.


We will hear a few horror stories from the repairs while the vast majority that have the work done with no issues will remain silent. This will make everybody run around screaming that the sky is falling. This is the way of the internet. Yes, it would totally suck to be one of the horror story guys but their experiences should not be considered the norm.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
finch1750 (02-13-2019), NoHaveMSG (02-12-2019)
Old 02-12-2019, 02:23 PM   #4
ermax
Senior Member
 
ermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2013 FR-S 6MT Raven
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 870
Thanked 2,013 Times in 1,176 Posts
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Aside from no oil I can only think of one thing, excessive packing. Similar to other reports of spun rod bearings after a timing cover repack.

At least they are covering it. On the bright side you have a fresh shortblock for free. Hopefully they will not botch the packing on the second attempt.
ermax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 03:01 PM   #5
yelsew
Little Member
 
yelsew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Drives: Bloo - The 13' BRZ
Location: OHIO
Posts: 353
Thanks: 373
Thanked 344 Times in 195 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post

I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work?
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.
__________________
<--- My Journal
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulreapersteve View Post
People just need some #drivermod in their life.
yelsew is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to yelsew For This Useful Post:
Tcoat (02-12-2019)
Old 02-12-2019, 03:04 PM   #6
Tcoat
He who smelt it...
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 65,507
Thanks: 58,040
Thanked 98,764 Times in 42,917 Posts
Mentioned: 2395 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelsew View Post
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.
Which is exactly my theory as to why some of the early ones spun the bearings without any work on them.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 03:24 PM   #7
Natedawg
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Drives: 2013 FRS
Location: Ohio
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelsew View Post
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.
This is my guess as to what happened. The only thing I did check after the initial work was the oil level, and it definitely had oil. I was told it lost oil pressure which is what caused the bearing to fail, i'll see if I can find out if the know what caused that.

I am glad they are taking care of it too, can't complain there. I guess it will be nice to have a newly rebuilt engine when its all said and done, although it will take a few thousand miles before I will be able to fully trust the car again.
Natedawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 04:04 PM   #8
ermax
Senior Member
 
ermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2013 FR-S 6MT Raven
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 870
Thanked 2,013 Times in 1,176 Posts
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natedawg View Post
This is my guess as to what happened. The only thing I did check after the initial work was the oil level, and it definitely had oil. I was told it lost oil pressure which is what caused the bearing to fail, i'll see if I can find out if the know what caused that.

I am glad they are taking care of it too, can't complain there. I guess it will be nice to have a newly rebuilt engine when its all said and done, although it will take a few thousand miles before I will be able to fully trust the car again.
While you are at it, ask if it was the #2 or #3. #2 and 3 share a main feed. It would also be interesting to know if the pickup screen was clogged with old scrapped off packing.

Last edited by ermax; 02-12-2019 at 04:15 PM.
ermax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 04:14 PM   #9
ermax
Senior Member
 
ermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2013 FR-S 6MT Raven
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 870
Thanked 2,013 Times in 1,176 Posts
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelsew View Post
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.
They leave the heads on so I can only imagine were all the old packing goes as they scrape it off.
ermax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 04:38 PM   #10
Pinoy_FRS
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Drives: Ultramarine
Location: 845
Posts: 46
Thanks: 6
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Same thing happened to me last night. Not entrirely positive it’s a spun bearing but from my research and your post it’s looking like it. I’ll hear from Toyota tomorrow
Pinoy_FRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 04:58 PM   #11
Stang70Fastback
A.K.A. Starlord
 
Stang70Fastback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: 2015 Series.Blue
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,815
Thanks: 836
Thanked 2,056 Times in 820 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
I've also heard rumors that there are a not insignificant percentage of vehicles returning with issues after the valve spring repair. So it's possible that the techs are doing something wrong, or weren't trained on an extra step, or just that something is going wrong during the repair in general that nobody foresaw. Maybe they didn't explicitly spell out "DON'T LET OLD GOOP FALL INTO ENGINE," in the instructions. Who knows, but someone at one dealership in one of our FB groups said they were actually completely stopping doing the repairs until they got more guidance from Subaru/Toyota due to 10% of the repaired vehicles being brought back with further issues.
__________________
.

Check out my blog, read all about my BRZ adventures, and oogle my sweet cell-phone photos!
You can also find me on Instagram, and on Facebook.
Stang70Fastback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 05:03 PM   #12
ermax
Senior Member
 
ermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2013 FR-S 6MT Raven
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 870
Thanked 2,013 Times in 1,176 Posts
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback View Post
I've also heard rumors that there are a not insignificant percentage of vehicles returning with issues after the valve spring repair. So it's possible that the techs are doing something wrong, or weren't trained on an extra step, or just that something is going wrong during the repair in general that nobody foresaw. Maybe they didn't explicitly spell out "DON'T LET OLD GOOP FALL INTO ENGINE," in the instructions. Who knows, but someone at one dealership in one of our FB groups said they were actually completely stopping doing the repairs until they got more guidance from Subaru/Toyota due to 10% of the repaired vehicles being brought back with further issues.


There are lots of things not explicitly spelled out but a mechanic should know not to let shit fall in an engine without being told. It’s just easy to have crap fall in anyways. Unrelated but I’ve seen a few reports of damaged OCVs. This is something that probably should be added to the instructions. The connectors are in such vulnerable positions.

Rereading the instructions they actually do explicitly tell you not to let packing fall in:


The recall instructions are damn explicit about just about everything. It's way more detailed than the original manual. Maybe dealers aren't using the recall instructions and are instead using the manual.

Last edited by ermax; 02-12-2019 at 05:29 PM.
ermax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 09:29 PM   #13
BRZnut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: BRZ DGM Limited
Location: USA
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 5
Thanked 430 Times in 249 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
And this is why I'm sticking with my opinion that tearing apart good working engines for something that will likely never happen is a dumb way to attack this problem. They should have just planned to fix the issue for free when the unlikely event of a broken spring happens.
BRZnut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BRZnut For This Useful Post:
amcluesent (02-13-2019), Teseo (02-22-2019)
Old 02-12-2019, 10:04 PM   #14
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,495
Thanks: 10,091
Thanked 9,019 Times in 4,089 Posts
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
This ^

I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work? Was it just coincidence that the infamous 2013 spun bearing issue happened after the work? On the bright side it means the engine get's replaced for free instead of out of pocket which is what would have happened if the bearing spun before the work was done.
I was wondering the same thing. They don't even pull the heads for this. Are they pulling the timing cover? Maybe too much sealant there ending up in the pickup

Quote:
Subaru can't help it if outside suppliers provide/use faulty/sub-par metal in the manufacture of the components they use in their engines. Supplier issues happen.
I remember when I was wrenching on bikes this happened to Yamaha around 06'. I believe their titanium valves were made by Toyota and the heads were snapping off(believe it or not the valves where manufactured as two pieces and then fused). They got a bad rep about Ti valves for years after that even though it was a supplier issue that affected a limited number of bikes.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Possible recall on the 86 regarding valve spring tanner CANADA 84 11-28-2019 10:32 PM
Valve spring recall meadowz06 Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 115 06-09-2019 12:38 AM
Valve Spring Recall Dealers AsianStyle Mid-Atlantic 20 05-04-2019 03:43 PM
FR-S Valve Spring safety recall Ħɞ|| Hypnocracy Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 65 02-27-2019 12:53 AM
I have the valve spring recall information. meadowz06 Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 24 12-23-2018 09:44 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.