Failure After J02 Recall - Discussion Threads

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

I guess this means we all need to add a few hundred dollars to our maintenance budget every couple of years to drop the tranny and replace a $50 bearing

That's pretty much what I've resolved to do as well.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

I spent some time with the engine master tech at the dealership this morning and his take on it is it sounds normal for a high mileage engine. He figures there's been some wear on the chain guides (that I asked them to replace when they had it apart but they didn't) so there's a bit of slop until the tension and the oil pressure comes up.

Did you pay to have them done? If so are they going to reimburse you since they weren't

Originally Posted by gravitylover

He also told me the tensioner is hydraulic and can't be adjusted to take up that slack. At this point it would cost a bunch of money to have those guides replaced even though they're really inexpensive so I'll just monitor it and hope it doesn't change (much) from this point on.

Correct the tensioner is hydraulic, it's the timing chains that have to be tensioned properly with the timing marks all aligned before the pin is pulled on the tensioner to maintain the tension that was set. Like any belt or chain timed engine, everything must be set correctly during this process, 1 tooth off on one of the sprockets will cause noise and possibly damage. If it wasn't making noise previously, I'd be suspect.

Originally Posted by gravitylover

The other tidbit was why the throwout bearings go bad so quickly. Apparently there's only one vent for friction material from the clutch disc to evacuate out of the tranny and under heavy use it's not very good at doing what it's supposed to. Obviously covering the bearing in abrasives isn't a good thing. He said that if you get anything over about 30k you're doing well, if you pass 50k do a little dance. While the revised bearing appears to be the same as the old one it has better seal material that should be more resistant to the dust than it used to be but the "fleet" (my word) with the new bearings hasn't been on the road long enough to know if that's actually sufficient. I guess this means we all need to add a few hundred dollars to our maintenance budget every couple of years to drop the tranny and replace a $50 bearing

Transmission can be pulled and reinstalled at home cheaply and easily in a couple of hours.

The throwout bearing (new or old) requires a specific lubricant at several points, we've found if the proper lube is used and is applied properly with the updated bearing 99% of the time this cures any bearing issues. If an inferior lube is used, or it is not applied properly issues usually return. The Subaru P/N for this lube is 000041000 and comes in a toothpaste like tube. 1 tube is enough for many clutch/bearing jobs.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Opie

The throwout bearing (new or old) requires a specific lubricant at several points, we've found if the proper lube is used and is applied properly with the updated bearing 99% of the time this cures any bearing issues. If an inferior lube is used, or it is not applied properly issues usually return. The Subaru P/N for this lube is 000041000 and comes in a toothpaste like tube. 1 tube is enough for many clutch/bearing jobs.

Truth. Trans is easy peezy to remove-reinstall.


Iono about the lube. In my experience, the factory stuff separates and gums up pretty quickly. Is the Subaru 000041000 tube the same?

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Truth. Trans is easy peezy to remove-reinstall.


Iono about the lube. In my experience, the factory stuff separates and gums up pretty quickly. Is the Subaru tube the same?

This lube is much better, stays in place, doesn't run when hot and doesn't seem to pick up as much trash. Funny thing is it's been around for years...but most dealers don't use it.



JDM yo!

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by Opie

Did you pay to have them done? If so are they going to reimburse you since they weren't

They looked at it and decided it didn't need to be done so I wasn't charged. Gotta love when a tech decides that what you asked for isn't worth the effort even though you're willing to pay for it. I'm a fan of preventative maintenance but apparently they're not. I guess from their end it makes sense because they stand to make a bunch of money pulling everything apart to replace very inexpensive parts later.

Originally Posted by Opie

Correct the tensioner is hydraulic, it's the timing chains that have to be tensioned properly with the timing marks all aligned before the pin is pulled on the tensioner to maintain the tension that was set. Like any belt or chain timed engine, everything must be set correctly during this process, 1 tooth off on one of the sprockets will cause noise and possibly damage. If it wasn't making noise previously, I'd be suspect.

Unfortunately he just kept falling back on it's normal wear for 130k and I shouldn't be the least bit concerned. I am very suspect which is why I made the effort to be sure it's all documented.

Originally Posted by Opie

Transmission can be pulled and reinstalled at home cheaply and easily in a couple of hours.

The throwout bearing (new or old) requires a specific lubricant at several points, we've found if the proper lube is used and is applied properly with the updated bearing 99% of the time this cures any bearing issues. If an inferior lube is used, or it is not applied properly issues usually return. The Subaru P/N for this lube is 000041000 and comes in a toothpaste like tube. 1 tube is enough for many clutch/bearing jobs.

I wish I had started this train of thought a little earlier, I would have stopped at your place when I was in Florida with the car last week. Damn, now I'm going to have to go back to The Keys

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Truth. Trans is easy peezy to remove-reinstall.

I guess if you have a flat driveway or even better a garage. I know that mine will need to be done again this year because it's already starting to make noise, it's been about 40k since the clutch was done last time. Anyone local to the NY Metro/upstate NY/New England want to help me do it? I haven't pulled a tranny in 27 years

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

I guess if you have a flat driveway or even better a garage. I know that mine will need to be done again this year because it's already starting to make noise, it's been about 40k since the clutch was done last time. Anyone local to the NY Metro/upstate NY/New England want to help me do it? I haven't pulled a tranny in 27 years

That's a fair cop for sure. I have been taking my nice driveway for granted. It's still a big job. If you were out here on the West side, I'd be happy to host the project.

[Storm_Trooper]

Originally Posted by Storm_Trooper

Got my recall done. Also had the clutch and spark plugs replaced while they were in there.

Drove it twice out about 25 miles on it. Third startup I have CEL and traction control lights on. Used my OFT to check codes. P0455 and P0441. Both seem to be related to evap issues. I’m not a mechanic by any means. Guess I’ll call them Monday?

Cheers!

I just wanted to check in to say I took it back and they said they forgot to hook up some hose. Took care of it for me and I haven’t had a problem since (about 2k miles. I don’t daily it but I did take one pretty long trip in it).

At 50K miles on the clock I basically got a rebuilt engine, all new clutch/TOB, and spark plugs done for the cost of parts alone. Hopefully I’m not speaking too soon but I did wanna make sure I popped in here to report a success.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

I had the same thing and brought it back after 2k miles and mine was also running very well other than that. They pulled the pan and found sealant residue in the oil pickup, enough that it probably caused mild oil starvation on startup. Once it ran for 2 seconds it was moving enough oil that the clatter went away. It still stayed that way and was bugging me mor and more every day until I just changed the oil again yesterday and now it's back to normal, it still has the Boxer clatter but it doesn't sound like it's eating itself for lunch.

I'd say that you should ask them to pull the pan and take a look then fill with new oil and filter and then change it again in a few thousand km's.

Originally Posted by Opie

I would suspect that the timing chains tensioner was not adjusted correctly, the manual says something along the lines of "tension to the tightest notch, then go one notch further"...if not done correctly it causes the slack in the chains to tap when first started.

Never seen it cause any damage, but they'd need to pull the front timing cover to readjust them.

Just an update on this, its currently in at the dealer and will spend the night there. I've also seeming acquired a leak, looked just like a small water patch initially, but its just ultra fresh oil. Its been 490km since the service+recall, so I'm hopeful 1) its not serious, 2) its early enough to catch whatever it might be.

The dealer so far sounds pretty open to acknowledging its from the recall.

[Blighty]

@gravitylover
@Opie
Just another update.

Toyota couldn't find anything (they pulled the pan and said it was clean), so not sure where the oil leak was from, they also tried to do some cold starts to check for noise but they don't think anything is out of the ordinary. The noise has become less harsh without a doubt now, and its likely only because I know it was there that I can still make out that clattering noise, so I its possible that whatever was causing that initial pressure imbalance has started to right itself.

I just took her for a dyno - stock baseline. Pulled 6 times, 108, 110, 111, 112, 112, 111 (kw). Good enough numbers, Trent at chequered identified no issues in the logs.

The 5th pull had a knock detection, which brought the mapping back a little to make the 111 on the last run, but that seems pretty normal as it was part of the ecu learning once the dyno runs started.

Runs amazing really (car also has no cabin noises, which I thought was odd for a 7 year old car). I will keep checking for oil leaks, but its possible that I have a similar thing as gravitylover.

I'll give it another month or two just to be sure about the recall, then the mods are going to start going in! Very exciting.

[PhilzFra]

Hello everybody,

I am a french driver of a french Toyota GT86 from 2013. I just Registered on your forum.

Toyota has now started in France a Spring Valve Recall Campaign and unfortunately my car is on the list...as I understand some failures have occurred in other countries after recall, failure possibly due to sealant issue.

I understand you have no statistics available on how many engine failures have occurred after recall but can you at least give feedback?

How many cars of people on this forum have encountered this engine Failure after recall?

Once recall performed is there any possibility to check oïl lubrication is running smoothly?

Does the engine Failure occur rapidly after "repair" done?

Any suggestions? or comments, that you consider would be helpful?

Thks and Rgds

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by PhilzFra

Hello everybody,

I am a french driver of a french Toyota GT86 from 2013. I just Registered on your forum.

Toyota has now started in France a Spring Valve Recall Campaign and unfortunately my car is on the list...as I understand some failures have occurred in other countries after recall, failure possibly due to sealant issue.

I understand you have no statistics available on how many engine failures have occurred after recall but can you at least give feedback?

How many cars of people on this forum have encountered this engine Failure after recall?

Once recall performed is there any possibility to check oïl lubrication is running smoothly?

Does the engine Failure occur rapidly after "repair" done?

Any suggestions? or comments, that you consider would be helpful?

Thks and Rgds

There were about 55 reported failures on here. Some came to report the failure and we never heard from them again.

After the work is complete you can pull the oil pan and check for sealant. If you have an oil pressure gauge you could watch it closely but if only one channel is blocked it will not give you warning.

The majority of failures occurred within a few thousand kilometers. Some lasted a little longer but the majority happened pretty fast.

I would suggest that you wait and get the recall done later so the techs learn the proper way to seal the engine. If you are not forced by law just leave things alone and don't have it done at all.

[PhilzFra]

Hello Again,

Thanks for your answer.

Do you know when the spring retrofits/replacements were done on these 55 cases? (I mean was it in Q1 or Q2 or Q3 or Q4 2019) .

Is there still any recent Failure case (end 2019 or early 2020)?

and if Toyota and/or Subaru have modified their retrofit procedures since these failures after recall have occurred?

If I understand properly the different mails on this forum, Toyota and Subaru have in the majority of the cases refused to replace the failed engines rejecting the cause of Failure (sealant uncorrectly cleaned or installed), correct?

Have some of the owners facing the failures issue made a legal claim or gone to court to get compensated?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by PhilzFra

Do you know when the spring retrofits/replacements were done on these 55 cases? (I mean was it in Q1 or Q2 or Q3 or Q4 2019) .

Most were early in the process, but if they are just starting in France, that puts you in that part of the bubble.

Originally Posted by PhilzFra

Is there still any recent Failure case (end 2019 or early 2020)?

Not sure that is relevant for you.

Originally Posted by PhilzFra

and if Toyota and/or Subaru have modified their retrofit procedures since these failures after recall have occurred?

The instructions were enhanced for clarity and emphasis early on, but not so much modified I don't believe. Basically it was additional "Be careful when applying sealants" type warnings.

Originally Posted by PhilzFra

If I understand properly the different mails on this forum, Toyota and Subaru have in the majority of the cases refused to replace the failed engines rejecting the cause of Failure (sealant uncorrectly cleaned or installed), correct?

I don't believe that is correct. The repair comes with a warranty and most issues were corrected, but some were not for various reasons.

I had mine done early on by a dealership I trusted, and it was done by their lead mechanic. I was the 5th or 6th one he did, with no failures to that point, at least according to them. I have over 20,000 miles on it since then with no issues.

That said, mine was done before the failures started occurring or at least reported in "large" numbers. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have had it done. The failure of the valve spring and its repair is covered by the recall as well. My car had over 120,000 miles on it when I had it done, there was really little chance mine were going to fail.

I primarily did it as a cheap way to get some other work done at the same time. Hindsight being what it is, probably not worth the risk even though it worked out OK for me.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by PhilzFra

If I understand properly the different mails on this forum, Toyota and Subaru have in the majority of the cases refused to replace the failed engines rejecting the cause of Failure (sealant uncorrectly cleaned or installed), correct?

My research was the opposite, apart from right at the beginning there generally seems to be a willingness to acknowledge and fix faults or replace engines.

IMO I reckon you should drive as you normally would (not harder or gentler), and check for leaks in your driveway, and be mindful of strange noises between 2k and 3k revs - if no issues then I'd probably suggest going back for an early service after 5k km's regardless.