PSA: Please stop using the word "void" when talking about warranty and modifications

[Cmorris8848]

Deleted

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Cmorris8848

I have used void in arguments in the past, which is akin to Subaru's usages of the word 'ineligible'. And when I meant will, it will void that particular warranty. Subaru has several different warranties for vehicles, like engine, power train, transmission, suspension, and so on. Losing one warranty may or may not have an effect on the other warranties, like you stated.

Another way that when I use the word WILL make your car ineligible as to CAN make your car ineligible is if your dealer cares. I know of several dealers that do not care and will perform the warranty work anyways even if your car should be ineligible.

So a performance clutch that causes excessive wear on my transmission and differential will cause warranty coverage for my stock air intake to be null and void?

The point I am trying to make here is that there is no loss of warranty coverage. It's just a question of whether your claim will be accepted or denied, by either the warranty work performing dealer, or by corporate.

Understanding this is key for enthusiasts in keeping their rights.... there is no loss of warranty coverage at all.

-alex

[Cmorris8848]

Deleted

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Cmorris8848

Second: an entire warranty can be made ineligible, ie voided, if a vehicle has been changed in such a manner that constitutes a material alteration of its original construction, ie custom tune, altering mileage, altering VIN, etc. Take a look at Subaru's Warranty website some time. Take out the ie's, and you have what was written on the website.

Please tell me what part of this voids the entire warranty, aside from the part I already bolded below?



http://www.subaru.com/owners/vehicle...ties-2016.html

What is Not Covered:

Parts Covered By Other Warranties

These warranties do not cover any parts, such as tires, which are covered by their own separate warranties.

Maintenance and Adjustment Services; Normal Deterioration

These warranties do not cover the cost of parts or labor involved in performing any normal maintenance services. There is also no coverage for normal deterioration or fading of paint, soft trim, cosmetic and appearance items.

Damage or Malfunction Due to Improper Repair or Unauthorized Parts

These warranties do not cover any part which malfunctions, fails or is damaged due to any unauthorized alteration or modification made to the vehicle such as the removal of parts or the installation of parts, equipment or accessories or improper repairs or adjustments not approved or recommended by SOA.

Damage or Malfunction Due to Abuse, Neglect, Accident or Fire

These warranties do not cover any part which malfunctions, fails or is damaged due to objects striking the vehicle, road hazards, whether on or off the road, accident, fire, neglect, abuse or any other cause beyond the control of SOA.

Damage Caused By a Non-Covered, Unauthorized Part

These warranties do not cover damage to a covered component directly caused by the failure of a non-covered part, accessory or occurrence of event.

Damage Caused Due to Use of Vehicle in Competitive Events

These warranties do not cover damage to any component that is the result of operating the vehicle in any competition or racing event.

Damage or Malfunctions Due to Lack of Maintenance or Failure to Follow Instructions

These warranties do not cover any part which malfunctions, fails or is damaged due to a failure to follow the operating instructions set forth in the Owner's Manual (e.g., failure to use proper fuel) or a failure to follow the Schedule of Recommended Inspection and Maintenance Services set forth in this Booklet.

Damage Caused by the Environment

These warranties do not cover damage caused by airborne fallout (which includes but is not limited to chemicals, tree sap, and bird droppings), salt, water, flooding, hail, windstorm, lightning, extreme temperatures, or any other environmental cause.

Repairs By Non-Authorized Subaru Dealers

Except in the case of emergency repairs as previously explained, labor and material expenses for repairs performed at any facility other than that of an Authorized SUBARU Dealer are not covered.

Cars Ineligible for Warranty Coverage

The vehicle is not eligible for warranty coverage if the vehicle identification number is altered or cannot be read; if the vehicle has been declared a total loss or sold for salvage purposes; if the vehicle has been dismantled, destroyed or changed in such a manner that constitutes a material alteration of its original construction; if the odometer mileage has been changed so that mileage cannot be readily determined.

Applied Chemicals

These warranties do not cover any part of the vehicle's finish which is damaged by adding or applying chemicals other than those approved or recommended by SOA.

Damage Caused By a Non-Covered Part

These warranties do not cover damage to a covered component directly caused by the failure of a non-covered part or occurrence of event.

Commercial Use

These warranties do not cover any part which malfunctions, fails or is damaged due to commercial use of the vehicle, unless this exclusion is expressly waived in writing by SOA.

[Cmorris8848]

Deleted

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Cmorris8848

Second: an entire warranty can be made ineligible, ie voided, if a vehicle has been changed in such a manner that constitutes a material alteration of its original construction, ie custom tune, altering mileage, altering VIN, etc. Take a look at Subaru's Warranty website some time.

Subaru can put anything they want in their warranty language. They can say that farting in the car will void the warranty if they want. Doesn't mean anything, because federal law trumps their contract language. Magnusson-Moss says warranty work cannot be legally denied as a result of a modification unless that modification caused the issue. So there is no voiding of warranties, only denial of claims, which can be contested and beaten.

Years ago I had an employer make everyone at my company sign restrictive covenant agreements (non-competes) that would prevent any of us from working in our business for six months if we quit or were fired. Everybody panicked, and some people actually quit instead of signing. But I talked to a lawyer, and he said, "Go ahead and sign it. It's unenforceable. State labor law trumps their silly contract, and they know it. They're just trying to bully the employees into thinking they're trapped."

It's a common bullying tactic. A contract is only enforceable as far as statute allows. If you have a statute that specifically contradicts what's in the contract, as Magnusson-Moss does with warranty work and as state labor law did with our restrictive covenants, the statute prevails and the contract language is meaningless.

[Cmorris8848]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Subaru can put anything they want in their warranty language. They can say that farting in the car will void the warranty if they want. Doesn't mean anything, because federal law trumps their contract language. Magnusson-Moss says warranty work cannot be legally denied as a result of a modification unless that modification caused the issue. So there is no voiding of warranties, only denial of claims, which can be contested and beaten.

Years ago I had an employer make everyone at my company sign restrictive covenant agreements (non-competes) that would prevent any of us from working in our business for six months if we quit or were fired. Everybody panicked, and some people actually quit instead of signing. But I talked to a lawyer, and he said, "Go ahead and sign it. It's unenforceable. State labor law trumps their silly contract, and they know it. They're just trying to bully the employees into thinking they're trapped."

It's a common bullying tactic. A contract is only enforceable as far as statute allows. If you have a statute that specifically contradicts what's in the contract, as Magnusson-Moss does with warranty work and as state labor law did with our restrictive covenants, the statute prevails and the contract language is meaningless.

Sadly, I have to agree with you. I concede my earlier argument that it is possible to void your warranty or make your car ineligible for any warranty work.

But the main issue I have is that a custom tune will cause your engine to be denied any warranty claims. That's my original point I tried getting across, but failed to do so.

Mav, I apologize for incessantly arguing with you on the matter of voiding a warranty. I'll delete those posts if possible.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Cmorris8848

But the main issue I have is that a custom tune will cause your engine to be denied any warranty claims.

Probably. Almost certainly.

The whole point of this thread, though, was that even if the manufacturer denies the warranty claim, they're not the final authority and can be overturned by a judge or arbitrator, and knowing this, they tend to throw the word void around to intimidate people into thinking they ARE the final authority so the customer will just pay up and not challenge it in court. I suspect that tactic works more often than not.

[Cmorris8848]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Probably. Almost certainly.

The whole point of this thread, though, was that even if the manufacturer denies the warranty claim, they're not the final authority and can be overturned by a judge or arbitrator, and knowing this, they tend to throw the word void around to intimidate people into thinking they ARE the final authority so the customer will just pay up and not challenge it in court. I suspect that tactic works more often than not.

Yeah... I saw juastatroll's comment earlier, and it got me off on this tangent. Sorry

[MisterSheep]

so... you're telling me if I plasti-dip my rimz it won't void my warranty? I was afraid of that...

[go_a_way1]

Originally Posted by MisterSheep

so... you're telling me if I plasti-dip my rimz it won't void my warranty? I was afraid of that...

DUDE If you pastidip your rims this will happen.... wait I cant post memes in non off topic threads for another 25 days!!! DAMIT joke is ruined, everyone move along nothing to read here... why are you still reading... I hope you know I am not giving you these 15 seconds of your life back, yes thats right I am keeping them for myself. At this point if you are still reading this you are insane and must have nothing better to do with your life. How come you have not stopped reading this, its starting to get on my nerves... wait I wont know if you are reading this and I assume most people have stopped reading by this point.... unlike someone who is still reading, so anyways since most people stopped reading this I would just like to say I like potatoes, there are so many ways you can cook them. I think mashed with gravy is among the best ways to do them, but twice baked potatoes are also super tasty. Thanks for wasting 30 seconds of your life with me, your welcome.

TL;DR: Don't

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Cmorris8848

Mav, I apologize for incessantly arguing with you on the matter of voiding a warranty. I'll delete those posts if possible.

no need to apologize, I just want people to stop thinking that they will lose coverage on their cars when they mod.

Many times, people come on here and ask "what mods will void my warranty" like they will lose out on something if they decide to add something to the car.

I'd rather be a total ass about this subject if it means more people understand what rights they have. This way, enthusiasts can make more informed choices when it comes to car mods and we all win.

-alex

[MisterSheep]

Originally Posted by go_a_way1

DUDE If you pastidip your rims this will happen.... wait I cant post memes in non off topic threads for another 25 days!!! DAMIT joke is ruined, everyone move along nothing to read here... why are you still reading... I hope you know I am not giving you these 15 seconds of your life back, yes thats right I am keeping them for myself. At this point if you are still reading this you are insane and must have nothing better to do with your life. How come you have not stopped reading this, its starting to get on my nerves... wait I wont know if you are reading this and I assume most people have stopped reading by this point.... unlike someone who is still reading, so anyways since most people stopped reading this I would just like to say I like potatoes, there are so many ways you can cook them. I think mashed with gravy is among the best ways to do them, but twice baked potatoes are also super tasty. Thanks for wasting 30 seconds of your life with me, your welcome.

TL;DR: Don't

but potatoes are good.

[go_a_way1]

Originally Posted by MisterSheep

but potatoes are good.

Holy shit someone read that..... Well I am not shocked it was you, cuz we read like all of each others posts.