2013 FRS | Documented LS2 Swap | How to DIY + Parts List + CANBUS

[spitsnaugle]

Originally Posted by TRS

Hi @spitsnaugle, I need your assistance. �� I'm expiriencing some serious heat issues when driving with AC at high outside temps, especialy when driving slow.

Load of the engine has an effect, but minor compared to switching AC on/off. I know you modified your hood. My issue here is that the mod you did would be massively illegal in Germany. As well it would not suit my design concept for the car.

So what are your expiriences with that? Did you try different radiators/fans etc and maybe collected some data?

I'm running the skunk2 ultra which is pretty much the biggest rad I could imagine to fit the frs. I know that surface area is much more decisive than size, but I dont see a very big difference betwenn the skunk ultra and EG the Jackson racing.

Some thought? BTW, are you running a under flor liner?

I replaced the radiator and fans while I did the engine swap. I installed a Mishimoto, it has done ok, but I think there may be better options like Jackson Racing Dual Radiator, Full Blown Motorsports. Skunk2 should be pretty good from what I know of it. I wish I had dimensions of each core.

I did alter the fan programming via HP tuners to kick both fans on earlier.

I had my (CX) headers ceramic coated, then I wrapped them in DEI titanium heat sleeves to keep hood temps down. The CX racing headers are not well designed for engine bay heat, Sikky or Vorshlag would be a better option.

I have some adhesive insulation along my transmission tunnel and around my fuel lines.


How are your steam vents routed from the cylinder heads? going into the inlet of the radiator? I did mine with an inline NPT adapter and barbed fitting.
Have you connected the oil cooler?

[TRS]

Oil cooler is running over the skunk2. It has an integrated oil cooler like the Jackson.

My CX headers have an 5mm integral insulation. They are arround 250°C surface temp under high load. Dont think I can Improve much here. Trans Tunnel is also insulated.

An issue are for sure the converters. They are sitting more or less over and slightly behind the crossmember. But I have to run them and and this is the only possible Position.

Im pretty sure that the mishimoto Fans I use are crappy. At least they are 10 bucks rebranded China units. Unfortunately the skunk2 is that big, that the OEM ones or Spal units dont fit in.

With my swap the Front section of the hood is blocked for vents. The rear section doesnt make sense since it is a aerodynamic high pressure area. The vents you use are no Option since they hurt the crash structure of the hood what is a no go for Germany. So I will go with functional vents at the fender trims, where also a slightly aerodynamic low pressure zone is located.

I am thinking about the Jackson rad. It is thinner than the skunk2 but has more rows. Im not sure if the massive size of the skunk2 might even be part of the issue. I expect high pressure drop for airflow by the fans because of the Stack thickness. Also the space for Fans is very limited due to that thickness.

I was thinking about a conventional oil cooler, but Im unsure if just relocate the issue with that from water temps to oil temps. At least the oil temps are in a very acceptable range.

Temps are fine (between 90 and 95°C) as long as Im over arround 35mph and Ambiente is below 25°C. Higher Ambient means water is over 90, arround 100 at moderate load. High load and 70mph+ at up to 40°C Ambient means arround 105 to 110°C. Very problematic is slow speed at high load like uphill racing on tight roads or drifting. Since I assume a Slalom should cause similar situations. So how are the temps reacting on a Slalom stint and what is your impression for a hipothetical lets say 60min run at such a Track Layout? Would your cooling system be able to handle this load?

[spitsnaugle]

Originally Posted by TRS

Oil cooler is running over the skunk2. It has an integrated oil cooler like the Jackson.

An issue are for sure the converters. They are sitting more or less over and slightly behind the crossmember. But I have to run them and and this is the only possible Position.

Im pretty sure that the mishimoto Fans I use are crappy. At least they are 10 bucks rebranded China units. Unfortunately the skunk2 is that big, that the OEM ones or Spal units dont fit in.

With my swap the Front section of the hood is blocked for vents. The rear section doesnt make sense since it is a aerodynamic high pressure area. The vents you use are no Option since they hurt the crash structure of the hood what is a no go for Germany. So I will go with functional vents at the fender trims, where also a slightly aerodynamic low pressure zone is located.

I am thinking about the Jackson rad. It is thinner than the skunk2 but has more rows. Im not sure if the massive size of the skunk2 might even be part of the issue. I expect high pressure drop for airflow by the fans because of the Stack thickness. Also the space for Fans is very limited due to that thickness.

I was thinking about a conventional oil cooler, but Im unsure if just relocate the issue with that from water temps to oil temps. At least the oil temps are in a very acceptable range.

Temps are fine (between 90 and 95°C) as long as Im over around 35mph and Ambient is below 25°C. Higher Ambient means water is over 90, arround 100 at moderate load. High load and 70mph+ at up to 40°C Ambient means around 105 to 110°C. Very problematic is slow speed at high load like uphill racing on tight roads or drifting. Since I assume a Slalom should cause similar situations. So how are the temps reacting on a Slalom stint and what is your impression for a hipothetical lets say 60min run at such a Track Layout? Would your cooling system be able to handle this load?

Any heat wrap and shield on the converters?

Mishimoto fans are definitely less than ideal, but that should primarily effect stopped temps.

I assume you have the bumper underside installed and ensured you no air escaping around the sides of the radiator?

Perhaps look at these vents, they avoid the hood structure and dont interfere much with the space below the hood:
https://www.verus-engineering.com/sh...z-frs-gt86-320

I've been around 113°(c) on track, but I have only done 20 minute track sessions.

[TRS]

Originally Posted by spitsnaugle

Any heat wrap and shield on the converters?

Mishimoto fans are definitely less than ideal, but that should primarily effect stopped temps.

I assume you have the bumper underside installed and ensured you no air escaping around the sides of the radiator?

Perhaps look at these vents, they avoid the hood structure and dont interfere much with the space below the hood:
https://www.verus-engineering.com/sh...z-frs-gt86-320

I've been around 113°(c) on track, but I have only done 20 minute track sessions.

Converters, Downpipes and complete exhaust has integral Isolation 5mm.

The complete OEM underfloor is installed. The Rad was badly sealed to the Front frame what caused hot air flowing back in front of the rad. That has already been fixed and results in 105°C stopped temp at up to 35°C Ambiente. (105 is my Fan-on temp) But it is noticable that there is not much margin, at least as long as the AC is running. The fans are running pretty much 100% of the time. From arround 37°C and up ambient temp, stopped water temps are raising slowly when AC is on. (while Fans running 100%)

I know about the verus vents, but as I said, in this area I have my Airbox and the throttle body blocking most of the necessary space. At least with rain stop I assume only the most right vent section would fit in.

Edit: Concerning steam valve, I T'd them into the heater core lines running through the fire wall. I still use the heater core since there are days in our region you dont want to miss a heater. I use the G8 style Routing where the heater lines are running pretty much along the passenger side fuel rail. It is the highest point in the System and I reused the OEM Bleeder knee of the 86 which is also in this section. So I can bleed trapped air from the steam port there. Once it is completely bleeded, there should be no further air from the steam port on my book. Only thing I maybe will change is a second Bleeder knee in the other line for the heater core. (of course there is a ingoing and a outgoing line)

[spitsnaugle]

Originally Posted by TRS

Converters, Downpipes and complete exhaust has integral Isolation 5mm.

The complete OEM underfloor is installed. The Rad was badly sealed to the Front frame what caused hot air flowing back in front of the rad. That has already been fixed and results in 105°C stopped temp at up to 35°C Ambiente. (105 is my Fan-on temp) But it is noticable that there is not much margin, at least as long as the AC is running. The fans are running pretty much 100% of the time. From arround 37°C and up ambient temp, stopped water temps are raising slowly when AC is on. (while Fans running 100%)

I know about the verus vents, but as I said, in this area I have my Airbox and the throttle body blocking most of the necessary space. At least with rain stop I assume only the most right vent section would fit in.

Edit: Concerning steam valve, I T'd them into the heater core lines running through the fire wall. I still use the heater core since there are days in our region you dont want to miss a heater. I use the G8 style Routing where the heater lines are running pretty much along the passenger side fuel rail. It is the highest point in the System and I reused the OEM Bleeder knee of the 86 which is also in this section. So I can bleed trapped air from the steam port there. Once it is completely bleeded, there should be no further air from the steam port on my book. Only thing I maybe will change is a second Bleeder knee in the other line for the heater core. (of course there is a ingoing and a outgoing line)

Following up here, you might want to reach out to Clay Warner @ Verus:
clay@verus-engineering.com
They're running a group buy right now on their radiator, and its supposably the best on the market:
https://www.verus-engineering.com/bl...eated-equal-58

[solidsnake11]

You might bump the timing up a little which should help some with the heat.

Late or retarded timing can cause overheating as the compressed air/fuel mixture is still burning very hot when the exhaust valve opens. This creates too much heat in the exhaust port and exhaust valve. This extra heat is also absorbed by the cooling system

[TRS]

Thanks @spitsnaugle for this Information.

I did take a Look in the verus rad earlier. While the core and also the spal fans seem to be high end, Im still not convinced about this setup, not only due to the pricing. My point is, that the fans Do not use any shroud. In consequence, the airflow under fan operarion is not going over the full core surface. In addition, hot air out of the "pressurized" engine compartment can flow back through the areas outside the Fans, not only going twice through the radiator that way, it also flows back infront of the rad, where the last thing you want to have is hot air. As well, they dont care about sealing the rad against the frame. The only rad where is taken into consideratiin is the OEM rad. You can see the foam seal there. Of course, this is a point where any aftermarket radiator I know about is not doing a good job. They all forget about the sealing to the frame to avoid hot air flowing back infront of the rad, what is decisive for Situation like ideling, stop and go and any low speed / high power usage (as there is e.g. Rock crawling on other applications, but also drifting, hill climbing and slalom can be such an Situation depending on the Layout of the Track)

Sealing to the frame can be fixed, no question. But Im not convinced about 3 times the price of other units while I have to expect that the Performance gain of core and fans I pay for is equaled by the negative effect of reverse flowing air due to the lack of a fan shroud.

For an application which is dedicted to Track racing only, this might not be an issue, since you need the Fans only when driving through the paddock. One could even assume a Performance gain due to lowered restriction of the rad at high speed with now shroud. But for street use and also things like drifting this cant be helbfull. Also, even in my case high speed with high load is NOT the issue. Despite the Fact that my current rad Setup is poor, it proofs that the need of additional cooling or less restriction of the rad at higher speed isnt there. The decisive point is anything between 50 and 0 kph, and in this range I expect that no backflow and high Fan efectiveness is much more decisive than lower restriction by canceling the shroud.

If it would be less half the price I would say, doesnt matter, I can fix it on my own. But for a high end price I would like to have a high end solution without any need to get rid of obvious imperfections.

PS: Sorry for much OT, might be mived by an Admin.

[spitsnaugle]

Winter Updates:

Pulled car out of storage:



Sold M85 3.73 LSD from IS300, wanted just to bit more mph before hitting the rev limiter.

Took my spare rear and had gears swapped to 3.58 at a local shop called QuickRev.
Below is breakdown of the parts involved, not listed is the shims (sold individually around $13) and pinion crush collar spacer ($25)
Also added a Greddy larger volume diff cover to help keep diff temps down in 15 minute track sessions.

[spitsnaugle]

Further updates:


Sold my CX racing headers.

With some precision percussive persuasion, I was able to fit SIKKY headers with my CX motor mounts (on their 2nd back mount hole).

This will save me some of the engine bay temps (engine itself is cool, just the surroundings) and roasted spark plug wires I've been battling.

Put a set of washers above the sway bar mounts helped provide enough clearance to fit.

I reused a portion of the CX Y-pipe to complete the system. It took a tight radius (3" CLR)
and a "normal" radius (5" CLR) bend to tie together, then bought two O2 bungs and welded them in.

After the hammering I sent the headers to SWAIN TECH, for their white lightning ceramic coating. This is a true insulating coating unlike JETHOT that I sent my last set. I then lightly dusted the white coating with "flameproof" iron colored paint because I know they would be discolored in no time, but didnt want to heavily paint them and cause any issues with the ceramic coating.

Fitting:





Finished:

[V84LYF]

Hey mate, just want to say amazing write up, will help heap when doing my conversion. Please keep updating the thread. Love to see what’s happening.

[spitsnaugle]

Mid Summer Updates:

• Roll Bar
• Finished accusump install
• Trunk Battery Relocation
• Racing Seat
• RacerX rear upper control arms
• Titan7 18x9.5" wheels and Falken RT660 tires

Autopower Roll Bar install:
Arrived unpainted (per my request) I sanded and painted it in Steel-It stainless steel paint. Super neat stuff, but super strong and bad smelling, way worse than any other paint, but you can weld through the paint, and its super durable.



Welded to the rear shelf/backseat space:




Interior back in, you can see how I trimmed the rear panels in the closeup for the bar to pass through.





Racing seat install:
Sparco Grid-Q seat.
Sparco base, sliders, and side brackets (personally I'd recommend PCI seat mounts)
Sparco 2" harness for use with HANS device.
Moved OEM seat buckle to sparco seat base.
Mounted two eyelets in floor for harness, one eyelet in trans tunnel.


Afterthoughts - definitely need a racing seat for passenger too, the horizontal bar keeps the passenger seat forward, no one over 5'8" fits without their knees on the dash.

[Dzmitry]

Not planning to do a rear seat delete with this setup?

[spitsnaugle]

Battery Relocation and Accsump install:

Battery is grounded to strut bolt.
Positive wire runs to fastronix AMG fuse, then to the front of the car in the interior, out the sound tube hole, and directly to the starter post. I have the original alternator wire going from the starter post, to a distribution block, where the fuseblock wires meet it.






Accusump:

*wiring wasn't finished in this last photo, I have a switch panel in the dash running to a pressure sensor on the accusump, it opens the solenoid to keep oil pressure up if it dips below 25lbs. I also wired up a 85db piezo alarm buzzer inline after the pressure sensor to alert me if it ever gets used.

The switch panel I cad and 3d printed.

[spitsnaugle]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

Not planning to do a rear seat delete with this setup?

rear seat delete changes my race class in some situations.