FRS Acceleration (520lbs of People)

[CajunFRS]

Serious question here. I know the FRS/BRZ has a good power/weight ratio. I'm wondering if all the people. Me/gf/Salesman made the car seem a little less "peppy". The reason I mainly ask is because it seemed a good bit slower than the Civic SI I test drove a week earlier. I test drove the civic alone. I know VTECH is like +1000000 HP and everything. Seriously though... Should I possibly go back and test drive a FRS (Alone). Rough estimate is 520 (not including fuel). I had a CRX with a B18errr(I forgot the rest) but I never had more than me and another person in it. It was a lot of fun to drive and I could definitely feel the difference between A/T and M/T.


I currently drive a Challenger R/T with a good bit of mods. Lowered and a few other handling mods. My car feels like a boat after driving some smaller fun cars. Really looking to get into something more economical.

Maybe I'm crazy... I just really expected the FRS to be a tad bit faster.

Thanks for any input.

[Rampage]

Drive it solo and then decide.

[SigmaHyperion]

I can't say for certain that the added weight explains all your perception of the lack of acceleration. However, all that weight certainly made a very big difference. An added 350lbs of people is like putting an extra 500lbs in your Challenger, and you can imagine how much that would affect things. That's the difference between just you in your Challenger or a full passenger load of 4 people. Certainly a noticeable impact.

Driving the FRS alone would certainly help assuage some of your concern. But if driving with others in your vehicle is common, it wouldn't really be much of a solution as you'd only get that same lacking feeling on a regular basis.

[MY13FRS]

Even with you driving the FRS solo, the Civic SI is still faster. Especially when VTEK kicks in yo.

[Wolfking]

I traded an SI sedan to get into my FRS....
FRS = rear wheel drive
FRS = waaaay better styling
FRS = better handling
~~~~~~~~~~~~
The only thing I miss about my Civic is:
1.) steering wheel mounted stereo controls
2.) moonroof
3.) storage / hauling capacity
4.) a better stereo
5.) maybe interior space...oh well!
That's it!

I hope this helps... God speed!

[DarkSunrise]

Yep it will definitely feel much slower (esp through the midrange) if you load it down with 2 passengers. Drive it solo and keep the revs above 5000 rpm. Driven that way, it's about as fast as the Civic SI and GTI for example.

[Cheddar]

The new Si and GTI are torquey little engines. That’s probably why it felt slower. That torque isn’t available in the FA20 unless you rev it out like the others said. A co-worker just bought a 2013 Si Sedan and it is nice. Just him driving it around I can feel the torque difference instantly and he’s been driving under 4Krpm.



Also the FA20 hates weight lol

[CajunFRS]

All the input is very appreciated. If I get off work early I'll drive it solo just to see. Maybe look at some dumps of stock and lightly tuned cars. Car sure was nice. 6k miles 6sp 22.5k.

[SUB-FT86]

I felt the same way about my RSX k20 engine. The engine made me hate the car in a lot of daily driving instances. I can see why the civic felt quicker. That .4 extra liter makes a difference. I would love a FRS with a FA25 that adds 25hp/35~40 extra tq.

[OrangeJuleas]

You feel the weight difference much more in a small lightweight 4 cylinder car than you would a big V8 or even V6.

In an FRS, 520 lbs. is a 19% weight addition (2,783 lbs.).
In a 2009 Challenger R/T, 520 lbs. is a 13% weight addition (4,041 lbs.).

In terms of Power/Weight, 520 lbs. in an FRS makes it 0.0605 hp/lb.
In the Challenger, 520 lbs is 0.0824 hp/lb. At 755 extra lbs. (weight added propotionally), it is still 0.0783. If you were to add weight to the Challenger to give it the same power/weight ratio as the FRS with 3 passengers, you would have to add about 2,169 lbs to it. Imagine how heavy your Challenger would feel then!

I'm just pointing these out for people who need to understand the difference between power/liter, and power/weight. Yes, the FRS has a good power/weight ratio, but it cannot compete with a V8 (even a heavy one) in that department. Power per liter? Yes, the FRS stands at around 100hp/liter, and the Challenger at about 66hp/liter. Inefficient? Yes, but that's not the point of it. This makes the FRS have much better fuel economy and more "bang for your buck", but the Challenger takes those achievements ans smashes them with a hammer, with a big middle finger to those.

The same weight addition would be 755 lbs. in your Challenger. Of course, since it has a nice big V8, you won't feel it as much . Most of the usable power in a small lightweight car comes from exactly that. Last night I carried 3 passengers in my FRS but I could still give it some torque. If you are worried about power in a smaller package than the Challenger, perhaps you should also look into a GenCoupe, or Civic Si. Hell, almost anything weighs less than the Challenger. It is a beautiful car though. :happy0180:

What I'm trying to get at is that the numbers needed to compare apples to apples shows that they really are two different experiences.

[mav1178]

Also keep in mind:

The FA20 benefits from higher revs and acceleration through a single gear (1st, 2nd) will feel slower due to the way the transmission is geared. A Challenger benefits from the gearing + midrange torque that will feel faster under the same type of acceleration.

Weight is a large part of this, but also how you're accelerating. If you want to "feel" fast in this car, you need to be above 4k RPM.

-alex

[CajunFRS]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

You feel the weight difference much more in a small lightweight 4 cylinder car than you would a big V8 or even V6.

In an FRS, 520 lbs. is a 19% weight addition (2,783 lbs.).
In a 2009 Challenger R/T, 520 lbs. is a 13% weight addition (4,041 lbs.).

In terms of Power/Weight, 520 lbs. in an FRS makes it 0.0605 hp/lb.
In the Challenger, 520 lbs is 0.0824 hp/lb. At 755 extra lbs. (weight added propotionally), it is still 0.0783. If you were to add weight to the Challenger to give it the same power/weight ratio as the FRS with 3 passengers, you would have to add about 2,169 lbs to it. Imagine how heavy your Challenger would feel then!

I'm just pointing these out for people who need to understand the difference between power/liter, and power/weight. Yes, the FRS has a good power/weight ratio, but it cannot compete with a V8 (even a heavy one) in that department. Power per liter? Yes, the FRS stands at around 100hp/liter, and the Challenger at about 66hp/liter. Inefficient? Yes, but that's not the point of it. This makes the FRS have much better fuel economy and more "bang for your buck", but the Challenger takes those achievements ans smashes them with a hammer, with a big middle finger to those.

The same weight addition would be 755 lbs. in your Challenger. Of course, since it has a nice big V8, you won't feel it as much . Most of the usable power in a small lightweight car comes from exactly that. Last night I carried 3 passengers in my FRS but I could still give it some torque. If you are worried about power in a smaller package than the Challenger, perhaps you should also look into a GenCoupe, or Civic Si. Hell, almost anything weighs less than the Challenger. It is a beautiful car though. :happy0180:

What I'm trying to get at is that the numbers needed to compare apples to apples shows that they really are two different experiences.

Very nice write up. I assumed that the weight played a large factor. I was more so comparing to the SI then the Chall. Although it doesn't help to get out a Frs and into the Chall. I've ran consistent 13.5s quarter miles in. I do really like the FRS. If they give me good on my trade I'll hopefully have and Asphalt FRS sooner then later. My car feels like a boat still. I have a F250*I should drive for a few days. Makes my Chall feel nimble.


Everyone's response is Much appreciated

[Lonewolf]

520 pounds of passengers makes anything with less than 275 hp feel slow...crimony

[Razz]

The Civic SI has more RWHP.

The FRS is only 130 RWHP.