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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 07-14-2022, 01:38 PM   #127
series.trackday
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Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast View Post
And yet Mazda manages to sell a 2400lb car for $30,000. Do they lose thousands of dollars for every Miata sold? Regulations certainly play a part, but throwing all blame for big and heavy cars on the government alone is disingenuous.
I didn't say "all blame" was on the government for increased weight, complexity, and cost due to safety features - I said that, plus consumer tolerance for cost-to-feature ratio, was mainly responsible.

Buyers looking for a two-seater convertible sports car are looking at Z4s, Boxsters, and TT roadsters, et al. Very few are cross-shopping those with a Miata because the Miata is cheaper and feels it. The Miata sells because it's a Miata, and Miata buyers are looking to buy a Miata.

Look at the Fiata. Effectively a slightly-longer Miata with a stronger 1.4L turbo engine instead of a relatively weak 2L, the Fiat 124 had 1/4th - 1/5th as many sales as the Miata and is now discontinued.

PS: You have literally one example, the Miata, because it's the exception to the rule, not the rule.

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Old 07-14-2022, 03:13 PM   #128
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You're comment was the question should have been more specific, which in fact, is quite specific. Choosing to follow the premise of the OP's question is a different matter altogether, I didn't. People tend to take the phrase, "money is no object" as if that means you have 44 billion to buy Twitter.
Obviously not specific enough if you have 8 pages to the contrary.
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Old 07-14-2022, 08:24 PM   #129
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Look at the Fiata. Effectively a slightly-longer Miata with a stronger 1.4L turbo engine instead of a relatively weak 2L, the Fiat 124 had 1/4th - 1/5th as many sales as the Miata and is now discontinued.
The "stronger" Fiata was *significantly* slower than the ND1 Miata (15.1 sec @ 91mph for the "hotter" Abarth 124 vs. Miata's 14.6 @ 95mph), had a less engaging engine (laggy as hell), was a couple hundred pounds heavier, and was ugly on top of all that.

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PS: You have literally one example, the Miata, because it's the exception to the rule, not the rule.
You, previously:
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The US government has mandated an amount of safety equipment that prohibits passenger cars being under a certain weight and a certain cost.
Gubmint regs do not prohibit reasonably-priced sub-2300-lb. 3-door fwd hatch, a 2350 lb. 2-seat roadster, or a 2800 lb. 2+2 from being sold in the US...

I would say that the CAFE regs do *discourage* smaller, lighter-weight cars though...

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Old 07-15-2022, 07:51 AM   #130
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Imagine a car dealer literally offering you 2 options for a free car, which for all intents and purposes, is a win-win no matter what, and some people saying "Neither, I rather take _____".



Its free.......Even when the tittle first made me think "I couldn't pay with money for either A or B, do I have enough bottle caps in my Nuclear Disaster piggybank?"
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Old 07-15-2022, 08:02 AM   #131
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Imagine a car dealer literally offering you 2 options for a free car, which for all intents and purposes, is a win-win no matter what, and some people saying "Neither, I rather take _____".
In this case, and assuming there are no restrictions against it in the deal, I would take the Supra because it will have the highest resale value. I would then immediately flip it and buy something else. Even if that something else was the GT86, I'd come out ahead.
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Old 07-15-2022, 08:09 AM   #132
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In this case, and assuming there are no restrictions against it in the deal, I would take the Supra because it will have the highest resale value. I would then immediately flip it and buy something else. Even if that something else was the GT86, I'd come out ahead.

This is the way.
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Old 07-15-2022, 11:48 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by spcmafia View Post
Imagine a car dealer literally offering you 2 options for a free car, which for all intents and purposes, is a win-win no matter what, and some people saying "Neither, I rather take _____".



Its free.......Even when the tittle first made me think "I couldn't pay with money for either A or B, do I have enough bottle caps in my Nuclear Disaster piggybank?"
What are the other options? I don't like my only choices.
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Old 07-15-2022, 12:02 PM   #134
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What are the other options? I don't like my only choices.

To be fair, if a dealer is offering you a free car, there would have to be something horribly wrong with it. So I can see why some people would rather choose something else.
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Old 07-15-2022, 01:21 PM   #135
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Without having driven a GR supra I would lean to GR86.

Drove my old man's 335 recently with the same or more HP and was overall meh after I got out. Ask me in 20 more years and maybe I'd have a different answer, but right now I was much happier jumping into my 86.
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Old 07-15-2022, 02:00 PM   #136
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It's just that with a heavier car, you lose all the feels. I don't care about mashing the gas pedal.
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Old 07-15-2022, 04:58 PM   #137
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To be fair, if a dealer is offering you a free car, there would have to be something horribly wrong with it. So I can see why some people would rather choose something else.
I'm just poking fun.
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Old 07-16-2022, 09:32 AM   #138
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It's just that with a heavier car, you lose all the feels. I don't care about mashing the gas pedal.
That's not really accurate, that you lose all the road feel in a heavier car.
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Old 07-16-2022, 02:19 PM   #139
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That's not really accurate, that you lose all the road feel in a heavier car.
It's a cringefest watching vettes and benzos try to autocross. Mass is mass. I'd daily a go-kart if it was an option.
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Old 07-16-2022, 06:19 PM   #140
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It's a cringefest watching vettes and benzos try to autocross. Mass is mass. I'd daily a go-kart if it was an option.
I mean, to each their own. I don't autocross anymore because the cash-to-track-time ratio is too low.

Why don't you own an Ariel Atom? I can't think of anything more gokart like for DDing.
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