Is weight no longer an issue in sports cars?

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Dr. BRZ

So according to you, i make 2460/240 = 10.25
2775/10.25 = 270.
I'm using crank hp.
Hmm.....

Found the link


http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/...-weight-ratio/


EDIT: I found an online calculator


http://almirscorner.blogspot.com/p/h...alculator.html

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ermax

In the context of this discussion it isn’t a useless metric at all. No one is saying a large displacement V8 is inferior because it has a low HP:L ratio. The point people are making in this thread is it’s difficult to go much past 100HP/L without FI. In other words the FA20 would be hard to extract additional power out of without FI or a displacement bump (even if it caused the HP/L ratio to drop). The ND1 engine on the other hand had some headroom to work with without a displacement bump or FI.

Maybe I’m missing your point though.

In a car engine anyways.

Otherwise, all you need is high RPM and a smaller engine.. so buy a bike and 100HP/L is nothing

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Excess power can overcome a weight deficit.

However depending on how well a car is tuned a heavy car can feel nimble and lighter than it actually is.

But its still not going to feel as nimble as something smaller and lighter. That's just physics.

Sticky tires and active differentials and rear wheel steering are really the only way for a heavy car to feel nimble.

[BlueWhelan]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Sticky tires and active differentials and rear wheel steering are really the only way for a heavy car to feel nimble.

Well...not necessarily. The effects of physics don’t just appear if the form of weight (not that that’s what you saying). A heavy car can still be made to feel nimble by employing good suspension geometry, low/centralized center of gravity/weight, etc. That last one is hugely important, but also very difficult to do in a modern consumer vehicle.

That said, I agree with you. New technologies can completely change a car’s feel. I for one am blown away by what modern rear wheel steering can do for a car’s nimbleness. However, I’m of the option that a car’s nimbleness really comes to light through how the front end reacts, not the rear.


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[Vracer111]

The Ariel Atom is probably the only thing that has maintained its weight very well over the years. Would so love to have one because Honda I4 motors are my first love and a no-nonsense, raw, lightweight 100% focused drivers car is what I've always wanted. But I could barely afford the FR-S... so no Ariel Atoms are in my future. I guess eventually will have to go the MX-5 'Exocet' atom clone route. A miata with about 1,000 lbs shaved off it... sign me up!

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

BTW I have removed 220lbs from my car and it makes a noticeable difference. I'm working on removing another 100 this winter.

Thanks for the analysis, that makes more sense.

What are the key areas of the car that you've reduced weight (more so 10-20 lb chunks of weight) ?

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Thanks for the analysis, that makes more sense.

What are the key areas of the car that you've reduced weight (more so 10-20 lb chunks of weight) ?

Right now the interior is gutted and I'm working on removing seam sealer and sound deadening. It sucks but is free. I already had a 1" scraper in stock! Some of the interior will be going back in with mods. AC delete this year along with carbon driveshaft and lightweight battery.

I'm basically following @Anthony and @SuperTom threads and deciding what I want to remove and leave and modify. There are other great weight loss threads on Miata forums and blogs.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42284

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118243

I would suggest reading both.

It's going to be a very long journey for me. Slow and steady wins the race. I'm already starting to go after grams never mind pounds. Pounds = full replacement that = $ at this point.

[imped4now]

As someone who went to pretty far lengths building a lightweight, DD-capable/hard offroad Jeep TJ, just make sure you really, really want the disadvantages (increased NVH and less comfort) before diving in. Yes, it's not apples to apples but I do have some pretty solid experience in building vehicles with weight being a high priority. You may end up missing those creature comforts down the road.

[ZDan]

It's worth noting that one big reason cars have gotten so much bigger and heavier is that CAFE standards have been juked around (no doubt nudged by the US auto industry and the oil industry) to *reward* cars for being bigger (i.e., they get a big break in fuel economy targets) and to *punish* cars for being smaller. Not to mention giving SUVs a huge break by lumping them with trucks. Which IMO shouldn't get any kind of break anyway, but they do... Also with rewards (lower target) for big trucks and punishment for smaller ones. Which is why small trucks don't exist in the U.S. any more.

Make CAFE one number for all vehicles, and apply guzzler tax on the inefficient vehicles and reward more efficient vehicles with a tax rebate, and vehicle sizes and weights would come down. But that's not what CAFE standards are being used for these days...

[WolfpackS2k]

CAFE standards are a joke. A lifted wagon with "off road" plastic body cladding is considered a truck. Identical vehicle 2 inches lower is a car with stricter standards.

Additionally, in my opinion, low volume sports cars shouldn't need to be held to such standards either. Their impact is so minimal as to be a joke.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by imped4now

As someone who went to pretty far lengths building a lightweight, DD-capable/hard offroad Jeep TJ, just make sure you really, really want the disadvantages (increased NVH and less comfort) before diving in. Yes, it's not apples to apples but I do have some pretty solid experience in building vehicles with weight being a high priority. You may end up missing those creature comforts down the road.

Fair warning. I drove all last year with a gutted interior. It's noisy for sure. Some of that will be going back in to reduce noise, but modified. The difference with 200lbs removed was, in my mind, incredible. It lead me to wanting more weight savings. But, I am now targeting select areas.

Losing weight off of your suspension, tires, wheels will not add NVH. Changing hardware, reproducing brackets, etc in lighter materials are areas I'm looking at.

[WolfpackS2k]

I imagine stripping the sound insulation would just be like driving a stock S2000, lol.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I imagine stripping the sound insulation would just be like driving a stock S2000, lol.

It doesn't make much difference. There's less than 10lbs to begin with lol

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

The Ariel Atom is probably the only thing that has maintained its weight very well over the years. Would so love to have one because Honda I4 motors are my first love and a no-nonsense, raw, lightweight 100% focused drivers car is what I've always wanted. But I could barely afford the FR-S... so no Ariel Atoms are in my future. I guess eventually will have to go the MX-5 'Exocet' atom clone route. A miata with about 1,000 lbs shaved off it... sign me up!

by many accounts the atom isn't a very good drivers car. I'm not sure many companies not called Porsche do rear engine cars well.