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View Poll Results: How many 86 owners are planning on getting the Supra?
I'm definitely getting one 32 12.17%
I might get one if they offer a MT 100 38.02%
No, not me. 131 49.81%
Voters: 263. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-18-2019, 11:47 AM   #407
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Hate when stock car having brake air duct. Their brake fades so bad that they need brake duct to keep it cool for daily use? I get that some 911 or M series (& so on) built for track focus... but when non-track focus having those question their reliability.
But.. this is supposed to be Toyota's premium sports car. Not a Camry.

Even if not everyone uses every feature, a brands premium sports car should absolutely have functional ducting. It should be designed for some downforce, etc. Because many will use a brand's premium sports car for track use and if it's not basically track ready then it's a failure as a brand's premium sports car.

If this were a Lexus SC coupe, no one would care about these things. But it's not, it's supposed to be a Supra.

Of course prior Supras were more GT cars, it just seems like they tried for a bit more sports car this time. Eh I should just ignore this thread like I'll ignore this car lol
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:55 AM   #408
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Yeah back in 2013 the BRZ/FRS must have been the worse... all those HPFP replacements due to noise, poorly sealed taillights, etc.

Actually thinking back, my BRZ had more warranty work than any car I've ever owned. In 3 years it had at least 4-5 HPFP, 1 set of taillights, 1 transmission (6th gear whine) and HVAC controls IIRC.
Holy crap. I guess I'm lucky (or on borrowed time!). I did have a minor tail light thing, but replaced them with Valentis anyways.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:00 PM   #409
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Holy crap. I guess I'm lucky (or on borrowed time!). I did have a minor tail light thing, but replaced them with Valentis anyways.
My guess is that if you haven't had the issues yet you never will.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:00 PM   #410
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Holy crap. I guess I'm lucky (or on borrowed time!). I did have a minor tail light thing, but replaced them with Valentis anyways.
Eh my dealer loved doing warranty work. Outside of the transmission I didn't complain about any of those issues.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:04 PM   #411
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Almost all BMW's and Audi's have brake ducts (atleast from the base 3 and A4 up)

Spoilers/Aero elements are a big selling point and way to justify design. You honestly wouldn't care if a spoiler reduced drag and got you better gas mileage? You don't think gas mileage is a big selling point for the average consumer?

Also this a SUPRA. Toyota's HALO SPORTS CAR. Yes, brakes should be a priority. If the Germans care about it on their average bread and butter cars, you best believe Toyota should care about it on the Supra.

I'm sorry but this is just a bunch of excuses for poor design.

Over all the car is growing on me. I'm not too happy with what it is as a Supra replacement (I would buy a Corvette over this in a heartbeat), but I hope it sells well and encourages Toyota to stay in the performance market.
You're a bit confused. MPG are big selling point? Yes, that's true for ecobox or family cars... but this isn't a family car. Do you actually believe ppl who buy 911, La Ferrari, Hurican, AMG GT, Hellcat, Viper and other halo cars care bout MPG? I'm sorry, but THAT one I don't believe one single bit. They're far from thinking bout MPG. I'm pretty sure they're looking at racing performance more than eco performance.

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But.. this is supposed to be Toyota's premium sports car. Not a Camry.

Even if not everyone uses every feature, a brands premium sports car should absolutely have functional ducting. It should be designed for some downforce, etc. Because many will use a brand's premium sports car for track use and if it's not basically track ready then it's a failure as a brand's premium sports car.

If this were a Lexus SC coupe, no one would care about these things. But it's not, it's supposed to be a Supra.

Of course prior Supras were more GT cars, it just seems like they tried for a bit more sports car this time. Eh I should just ignore this thread like I'll ignore this car lol
Oh def agree that, if this car was named Lexus SC or some other name, ppl won't care rat's ass bout it. At the same time, I feel like ppl are bitching bout so minuscule things, just to complain that they didn't get 700hp Toyota engine w MT that weight 2,500lbs.

tbh we won't know how this car perform in general, til 3yrs after it goes on sale. (at minimum) We can talk pros or cons atm doesn't make any difference.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:06 PM   #412
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I do not put a whole lot of stock in the Consumer Reports reliability survey. The reason for that is that they are polling their readers and owners about their opinions about the car. The vast majority of those people are very unlike people who visit forums such as ours.

I may be mistaken but I believe when WE talk about reliability we are usually talking about engines, transmissions, engine management systems and suspension. The average reader of Consumer Reports is most likely concerned with the car starting and then things like lights, heater controls, air conditioning, heated seats, Apple Car Play, Bluetooth, connectivity and the sound system. Because all these things are lumped into the manufacturers ratings, it dilutes what is most important to a car enthusiast or a "Gearhead".

I have used CR to research used cars before buying in the past. When I did I focused on the engine/drive train and chassis information. Gadgets are usually easy albeit, expensive, to replace but they do not leave you stranded on the side of the road or cause you to fail emissions compliance.

My bias against German engineered cars is well rooted in my long years of experience dealing with them as both an owner, mechanic and being the family "go to guy" whenever someone is having car problems. Could they have improved over the last 10 years? I certainly hope so! However, I am one of those guys that when you wrong me, it takes a long, long time to regain my trust. Those German car engineers wronged me and there are probably not enough years left in my life for them to win me back.

And like Dave said, that whole business with the location of the timing chain of the B58 seems to indicate that they still have not learned all the lessons they should.

Believe it or not, I really do hope the Supra is a roaring success and those that can afford it have nothing but an awesome experience with it. Despite a few misgivings about it, I do think it is an exciting car.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:25 PM   #413
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I do not put a whole lot of stock in the Consumer Reports reliability survey. The reason for that is that they are polling their readers and owners about their opinions about the car. The vast majority of those people are very unlike people who visit forums such as ours.

I may be mistaken but I believe when WE talk about reliability we are usually talking about engines, transmissions, engine management systems and suspension. The average reader of Consumer Reports is most likely concerned with the car starting and then things like lights, heater controls, air conditioning, heated seats, Apple Car Play, Bluetooth, connectivity and the sound system. Because all these things are lumped into the manufacturers ratings, it dilutes what is most important to a car enthusiast or a "Gearhead".

I have used CR to research used cars before buying in the past. When I did I focused on the engine/drive train and chassis information. Gadgets are usually easy albeit, expensive, to replace but they do not leave you stranded on the side of the road or cause you to fail emissions compliance.

My bias against German engineered cars is well rooted in my long years of experience dealing with them as both an owner, mechanic and being the family "go to guy" whenever someone is having car problems. Could they have improved over the last 10 years? I certainly hope so! However, I am one of those guys that when you wrong me, it takes a long, long time to regain my trust. Those German car engineers wronged me and there are probably not enough years left in my life for them to win me back.

And like Dave said, that whole business with the location of the timing chain of the B58 seems to indicate that they still have not learned all the lessons they should.

Believe it or not, I really do hope the Supra is a roaring success and those that can afford it have nothing but an awesome experience with it. Despite a few misgivings about it, I do think it is an exciting car.
I hope/ think porsche is the one exception to poor design/reliability of german cars.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:41 PM   #414
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You're a bit confused. MPG are big selling point? Yes, that's true for ecobox or family cars... but this isn't a family car. Do you actually believe ppl who buy 911, La Ferrari, Hurican, AMG GT, Hellcat, Viper and other halo cars care bout MPG? I'm sorry, but THAT one I don't believe one single bit. They're far from thinking bout MPG. I'm pretty sure they're looking at racing performance more than eco performance.
You're contradicting yourself.

Is it a performance car where customers care about racing performance and by default would want functional venting/ducting/aero?

In that case the customers are being cheated and Toyota doesn't understand its market very well.

Either way you should look at that Jalopnik article. It clearly shows that only the front bumper intakes could be made functional. All the other vents just lead to dead ends/flat surfaces.

Tada-san was just making stuff up to justify cool "looking" non functional vents. He knows if he said anything else it would look really bad in the media.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:46 PM   #415
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Yeah back in 2013 the BRZ/FRS must have been the worse... all those HPFP replacements due to noise, poorly sealed taillights, etc.

Actually thinking back, my BRZ had more warranty work than any car I've ever owned. In 3 years it had at least 4-5 HPFP, 1 set of taillights, 1 transmission (6th gear whine) and HVAC controls IIRC.

Shit reliability

Like you though, my GM vehicles (3/4 ton trucks and the Camaro) have all been very solid.
Don't forget about the faulty valve springs that are in pretty much every 2013 86/brz
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:03 PM   #416
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You're contradicting yourself.

Is it a performance car where customers care about racing performance and by default would want functional venting/ducting/aero?

In that case the customers are being cheated and Toyota doesn't understand its market very well.

Either way you should look at that Jalopnik article. It clearly shows that only the front bumper intakes could be made functional. All the other vents just lead to dead ends/flat surfaces.

Tada-san was just making stuff up to justify cool "looking" non functional vents. He knows if he said anything else it would look really bad in the media.
Haha I'll admit, you got me there. But you need to understand this, not ALL market or buyer need those vents to be functional. All the suspension/brake and aero parts are working perfectly fine without those vents. Just for small parts of market (racing only purpose) need extra airflow, brake cool, drag reduction. That's when those fake vents comes in handy.

Also here's interview Automotive Magazine did with Chief Designer Nakamura-san talking bout the fake vents
Quote:
AM: Can you explain your thought process around the nonfunctional grille areas and add-on door-seal panel? Were those strictly for design or is it something that you thought maybe could be used later?

NN: On the technical side, we did some tests with them open and without. Many things. But for the production model, it turned out that closed is better, but it’s been incorporated in so that later on, let’s say if you wanted to add cooling ducts or for racing purposes, that option is available and it’s already incorporated into the design.
No, I will not look nor give them single click from my mouse from fake auto new site. Jalop is so fake, they're more fake than fake vents on Supra I don't trust a single word they write. I've seen them at the event, they ignore Tada-san, Toyoyama-san and other important staff who were involved in the development who were at the event. They LITERALLY walk pass them. I'll admit Toyoyama-san was more noticeable and crowded by Japanese media than Tada-san, but don't remember them try to talk to them. Even though most of them had translator next to them.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:08 PM   #417
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I'm sorry, this may be your opinion but its a cop out. You're basically saying only 1-2% if the buyers will care about drag reduction on the highway or care about reducing brake fade on a halo sports car. Or reducing lift/drag on a car capable of high speeds. We aren't talking about feature such as an oil cooler where, yes possibly only 1-2% of buyers will ever need, we're talking about features that benefit all users on a day to day usage, that I would assume cost very little R&D to implement (in the grand scheme of things).
Holes cause drag, drag causes poorer emissions. I'm not sure how the USA is but Euro 6 regs are getting stricter year on year. It is possible that by having the vents open would have a negative impact on where they can sell the car and having massively different specs for different markets doesn't make any sense for a low volume car. So it does make perfect sense that if a tiny proportion of the market will make those changes, allow them to do it without having negative knock-ons for the majority that don't.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:11 PM   #418
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@ichitaka05 and @RayRay88, for what it's worth I think you're closer than you think.

Ichitaka05 I pretty much agree with you on things like brake ducts and other aero features. For day-to-day driving if they exist and functional, they can be a pain and cause more damage than problems they solve. What would be nice is if they had built-in ways of shutting them. I mean they do it with every air vent in the car, why not the ones on the outside? Then you have the option of opening/closing them based on need and retain the look.

RayRay88 I think you are saying if they aren't going to be functional why be there at all. I also agree with that, to an extent. Although occasionally its nice to have them just to provide some sense of style.

There are lots of things that don't necessarily add to the functionality of a car but are there for style reasons though. Tesla is a good example of that. Their flush door handles add mechanical complexity that isn't needed but are cool. The front of the Model 3 is awful to me. It could stand with some fake aero or something to improve the design.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:20 PM   #419
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Tesla is a good example of that. Their flush door handles add mechanical complexity that isn't needed but are cool. The front of the Model 3 is awful to me. It could stand with some fake aero or something to improve the design.
Both of these things are the way they are as they reduce drag and in an electric vehicle that extends range.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:28 PM   #420
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Both of these things are the way they are as they reduce drag and in an electric vehicle that extends range.
Not really. Standard flush door handles would have the exact same effect as the ones on the Tesla without the "mechanized" overkill of the ones on the car.

There are lots of cars that just as efficient a front end with no to minimum openings that don't look like they were designed with a radiator opening that has been blocked up.

I'm guessing the Model S is just as efficient but they designed it with enough front end "character" that it's a good looking car. The 3 looks like it was run into a brick wall at 5MPH and not repaired.
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