|
Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions Discuss all other cars and automotive news here. |
View Poll Results: Practical but fun car for a young family: | |||
Get the 2017 WRX | 26 | 54.17% | |
2002-2005 IS300 M/T | 7 | 14.58% | |
E46 M3 6MT | 7 | 14.58% | |
E39 M5 | 1 | 2.08% | |
Other (I'd love to hear suggestions!) | 7 | 14.58% | |
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
03-17-2016, 07:43 PM | #57 | |
-
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,723
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
|
I've only seen WRX's and STI's attempt to autocross, never ridden in one, it didn't look pretty, or fun. As a practical car first, sporty second, turn it in before you need to start doing major maintenance they seem great. As for actually flogging it on track they fall pretty far down my list, I'd honestly take an Impreza (or Mazda3) over an STI at this point, put the $15k in my pocket towards something else.
Been hanging out with the BMW crowd, the E46 looks great on paper, but that is one of the cars that has garnered BMW's current reputation for expensive repairs and potential unreliability. It only makes sense if you are totally comfortable paying maintenance bills on a car that was, and always will be, a ~$55k+ car in 2001 money (>$73k today's bills) OR working on said >$70k machinery yourself. Same story with the M5 and pretty much any Bimmer built from the Clinton-era onwards, if you've got the money they're hard to beat, not many people have the coin. I have driven an IS300 and the suspension even on the beaten and abused model I drove was sublime, double wishbone all around, 3.0L straight six even through the AT and carrying an extra 500 lbs totally out-torqued the FA20. Same lead engineer as the AE86 and it shows, it's basically a Toyota E36 M3 on paper that came out 5 years too late. But I can't shake the fact that none of these cars really tick the boxes for being practical enough, modern or reliable enough as a family car imo. Except for the M5 the rear seats are all rather tight and to track all of them it will be a very slippery slope, oh just brakes and tires, well to preserve the tires I need camber and with the camber lets just stick with MPSS but I should save them so second set of wheels so lets go bigger and power and coilovers and on and on until it's uncomfortable and impractical. IS300 gets close, I think a set of modest tires, brakes and a good alignment could be sufficient, but it's a 15 year old sedan, I have a hunch the magic will wear off unless you can really work the suspension on a regular basis. Quote:
Mazda 3 (and hatch>sedan for the record). New Civic might have upped the game, but it's a first model year for Honda's new turbo four, might not be the winner today but maybe in a year or two. http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...c-first-drive/ http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2016/road-test/ I think @DarkSunrise is right, small, fun, practical DD cars are the right solution, check out current hatches. Problem is as far as I'm concerned all of those have mediocre rear space as well, might be ok for him but it's tough. New Civic, Mazda3 and 4-door Golf/GTI would be my top three suggested test drives. Not as fancy or punch packing as OP's original list but more fuel efficient (should all be >30 mpg average), newer (warranty, parts aren't worn out requiring expensive repairs), safer, and reportedly can be very fun. Mazda3 w/ 2.5L and a Manual should be orderable, from what I've heard though that extra 0.5L isn't really worth the money and loss in fuel economy. Edit: After writing that, maybe instead of going supercharged on my 86 in a few years, I could pick up a Civic-R as a all-rounder family car... If it's actually as good as the hype says they are. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to strat61caster For This Useful Post: | daiheadjai (03-17-2016) |
03-17-2016, 09:05 PM | #58 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Drives: 2015 Lightning Red BRZ
Location: U.S.
Posts: 190
Thanks: 245
Thanked 131 Times in 66 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Bought a 2015 WRZ for the wife the same time I bought my 2015 BRZ last year. They are not the same. It's definitely a nice sporty sedan, but you really have to determine what you want. If you want a comfortable sedan, don't get the WRX. If you want a family car that you can have some fun in (not BRZ fun, but some fun) then get a WRX. If you consider yourself a serious driver that NEEDS to have the driving experience, buy a cheap sedan/family car and buy a used sports car (BRZ, Miata, old Porsche).
sent from my phone using black magic |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to zberz For This Useful Post: | daiheadjai (03-17-2016), strat61caster (03-17-2016) |
03-17-2016, 09:09 PM | #59 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S)
Location: USA
Posts: 5,794
Thanks: 2,164
Thanked 4,242 Times in 2,220 Posts
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Track experience with the GTI was positive, although it feels out of its element in some ways. Generally understeers (entry, midcorner, exit), other than downhill turns where you can get some oversteer with throttle lift. Lots of body roll. Brakes were a weak point. Honestly the car feels best at like 7 or 8/10ths, but if it was my only car I think it'd be fun to track regularly with light suspension & brake mods. Reliability is a bit of a weak point with German cars (mine has had the water pump replaced under warranty) but it does well in crash tests and gets decent gas mileage. The best reason to pick a GTI over a WRX is the same as always - the interior. Also the hatch is very practical. If he's ok with FWD, I think either the mk6 or mk7 GTI would be a fine choice.
__________________
"Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time."
2022 BRZ Build 2013 FR-S Build |
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DarkSunrise For This Useful Post: |
03-17-2016, 09:55 PM | #60 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 2003 S2000, 2008 Fit
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,990
Thanks: 2,584
Thanked 1,154 Times in 688 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Wifey in the back had no complaints either. But point taken: a brief test drive is nothing like living with it. It might be better to just grab a decent family car, and a very cheap fun car. And if I was gonna go vintage Lex, I'd grab a GS400. Always thought those looked bad-ass. |
|
03-17-2016, 10:32 PM | #61 |
-
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,723
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
|
A decently setup FWD cured me of the misconception that FWD is less fun or effective than RWD/AWD, the preference is silly IMO. Want one, sure. Can't stand one? Bah.
|
03-17-2016, 10:56 PM | #62 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S)
Location: USA
Posts: 5,794
Thanks: 2,164
Thanked 4,242 Times in 2,220 Posts
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
I agree it's silly to assume FWD will forever understeer (can always change a car's balance if you throw enough parts at it), but I also know it's pointless to try to talk someone out of their preferences. I noticed all the cars he listed were either AWD or RWD so I figured that might be what he wants. Ultimately for me RWD vs. FWD comes down to whether you want the option to power oversteer. I personally love doing wet skidpads with RWD cars and track days in general.
__________________
"Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time."
2022 BRZ Build 2013 FR-S Build |
The Following User Says Thank You to DarkSunrise For This Useful Post: | daiheadjai (03-17-2016) |
03-17-2016, 11:43 PM | #63 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 2003 S2000, 2008 Fit
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,990
Thanks: 2,584
Thanked 1,154 Times in 688 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Had an old Celica and learned manual on a Mk 4 jetta so I agree FWD can be fun. Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to daiheadjai For This Useful Post: | DarkSunrise (03-18-2016) |
03-18-2016, 12:39 AM | #64 | |
Elite Padawan
Join Date: Mar 2010
Drives: '15 WRX, 15 GLA250, and 2 feet
Location: Shoreline, WA
Posts: 3,498
Thanks: 197
Thanked 250 Times in 159 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
__________________
Dark
|
|
03-18-2016, 02:30 AM | #65 |
Nobody beats the B[I|R]Z
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: shopping cart i stole from walmart
Location: somewhere
Posts: 939
Thanks: 262
Thanked 1,145 Times in 456 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
I don't think I would want to deal with both a newborn baby and a 15-year-old BMW at the same time.... get the WRX
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to reni For This Useful Post: | daiheadjai (03-18-2016), strat61caster (03-18-2016) |
03-18-2016, 03:55 AM | #66 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Drives: '06 AM V8V Coupe
Location: United States of America
Posts: 5,279
Thanks: 285
Thanked 1,074 Times in 759 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
You said the WRX had a long shifter throw and high seating position...well, shifter throw can be changed if you don't like, but the rest of the cars you listed also have a pretty high seating position too.
Personally, I think in this class of car there's only so much you can ask for, and the WRX is probably as good as it gets. Decent power, AWD, and a slick gearbox compared to the BRZ's IMO. The E46 M3 sounded really cool to me and I strongly considered buying one...until I read about it and got that thought out of my head quickly. It has a belt driven radiator fan for god's sake...even for 2000, that is next-level dinosaur tech, and the rear sub-frame apparently can get bent? That turned me off from the BMW brand enough that I never even bothered to read about the E39 M5. Between those I'd go WRX, since I don't really like the 2JZ-GE engine in the IS300. Are IS250s that bad? I've always wanted to try a manual transmission one... |
03-18-2016, 10:23 AM | #67 |
CASC-OR T.A. Director
Join Date: Apr 2010
Drives: '13 Prius, '22 BRZ
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,568
Thanks: 407
Thanked 877 Times in 570 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
WRX is the perfect dad-mobile. Do it. DO IT. DO IT NAOW.
__________________
Want the best quality track times for new personal bests? Come on out to Ontario Time Attack!!!
OTA LIVE TIMING LINK |
The Following User Says Thank You to Frost For This Useful Post: | daiheadjai (03-18-2016) |
03-18-2016, 01:32 PM | #68 |
Sarcastic SOB
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S M6, '23 Volvo V60 CC
Location: Thornhill Ontario
Posts: 4,610
Thanks: 1,337
Thanked 2,841 Times in 1,632 Posts
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
|
I am driving a 2016 Impreza loaner today while my car is in for service and I can confirm, contrary to what Dark commented, Subaru does know how to make the car quiet.
If my WRX was made as quiet as an Impreza I would not expect it.
__________________
5:AD kit, HKS V1+ S/C, ECUtek dyno'd, Ohlins MP20, Magnaflow cb, Revworks UEL, Topspeed overpipe, Pinnacle Ceramic tint, VG shark fin, HID's, yellow DRL's, full LEDs, red floor lights, Homelink mirror, trunk lid liner, Perrin LWCP, Valenti smoked, Flossy Grip Tape Shorty, GT86 plaque, lighted vanity mirror, Michelin PSS, Project mU +800, DOT4 fluid, 720 Form GTF1 17x8&9, stitched leather bits, EZ valve.
|
03-18-2016, 02:28 PM | #69 | |
-
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,723
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Mazda is suffering for it's missteps in the past, it's why they've scaled back and really focused on each individual model before releasing it. They had two really bad problems that turned off a lot of buyers they're trying to win back imo. The first is rust, in the 80's it was forgivable, all cars rusted and were trash by 5-10 years in the snowbelt, but galvanized steel came along and greatly reduced that. By the late 90's cars were more resilient, but not Mazda's, there have been rust issues on Mazda's up through the 00's with Mazda extending the corrosion warranty to 6 years on 04-06 Mazda3's. I know Tcoat had that comment when the topic of the Protege's came up, had a relative with one that was disintegrating iirc. The second I think was the 1st generation Renesis in the RX-8, I love the rotary engine but can't defend the fact that there were enough RX-8's blown by 36k miles to warrant an extended 10 year 100k mile warranty and free engine replacement program for them. No matter what they do in the future, early adopters will be few as those with longer memories think of how many enthusiastic RX-8 owners got burned. Mazda has a fanbase, but to the average US buyer, they're a small Asian manufacturer on par with Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai as bottom of the barrel with the perception of flimsy build quality that's overpriced for what you get because it's Japanese. It will take many more years of the 3, 6, CX, and ND delivering time and time again in magazine tests and surviving on the road and retaining resale value for their brand value to increase to the product they're making. Like Subaru they know this and are selling modest volumes to ensure profitability, achievable targets so they can count on consistent growth instead of gambling by overproducing and damaging their own brand as dealers discount deeply to move units against the competition. What I love most about Mazda right now is they developed their turbocharged DI motors in the '00s, the bigass power out of their 2.3L mazdaspeed3 that could put down 300+ horsepower with a tune 6+ years ago, is now sitting in a Mustang putting down 305 horsepower as 'the hot new thing' as well as the FoST/FiST and internet hype train of the Focus RS, ecoboost plastered all over the lineup touting 30+ mpg, their V6 is driving not only the F150 the best selling vehicle of all time, but also the new Ford GT that will take on Ferrari Porsche and Mclaren. And what does Mazda do with the in depth knowledge of these systems they developed a decade ago that underpin what might be Ford's most successful lineup ever? Toss it out the window in favor of their 'Skyactiv' design. Maybe Ford owns the tech and it was too expensive for Mazda to license it, idk, but in the areas they compete right now, Mazda wins hands down pretty much every time. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to strat61caster For This Useful Post: | Vic4uf (05-27-2017) |
03-18-2016, 06:53 PM | #70 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: '06 Cayman, ‘23 BRZ Sport-Tech
Location: The other cottage country…
Posts: 586
Thanks: 123
Thanked 517 Times in 288 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3HwWn55MJY&index=65&list=PL0NpLqqFBFSJmX9 clrkdyQwmPl_9tPrPY"]Modified Jetta TDI Sportwagen - One Take - YouTube[/ame]
__________________
Anything worth doing is worth doing twice...
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Talus1 For This Useful Post: | strat61caster (03-18-2016) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
2017 = more power | alan.chalkley | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 62 | 07-08-2016 07:24 AM |
2017 Fiat 124 - The best MX-5 (? or !) | DAEMANO | Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions | 121 | 04-30-2016 01:35 PM |
2017 SVX concept | Eski | Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions | 37 | 05-22-2015 02:18 PM |