HELP with understanding Brakes upgrade path

[bear89103]

Ok, I don't know much about the technical side of cars. So i want to understand brakes a little better. Especially since the FR-S seems to have somewhat "mushy" stock brakes.

So let's say that stock braking distance = approximately 120 ft
would the proper brakes upgrade path be...

1) Upgrade Brake PADS (= approx. 105 ft)
2) Upgrade Brake PADS, Brake Lines, and drilled/slotted rotors (= approx. 90 ft)
3) Upgrade Brake system; calipers, lines, rotors, pads, etc. (= approx. 60 ft)

Does this sound about right to you all?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by bear89103

Ok, I don't know much about the technical side of cars. So i want to understand brakes a little better. Especially since the FR-S seems to have somewhat "mushy" stock brakes.

So let's say that stock braking distance = approximately 120 ft
would the proper brakes upgrade path be...

1) Upgrade Brake PADS (= approx. 105 ft)
2) Upgrade Brake PADS, Brake Lines, and drilled/slotted rotors (= approx. 90 ft)
3) Upgrade Brake system; calipers, lines, rotors, pads, etc. (= approx. 60 ft)

Does this sound about right to you all?

Lets say stock is 120 ft. It would be more like this:

1) Upgrade Brake PADS (= approx. 120 ft)
2) Upgrade Brake PADS, Brake Lines, and drilled/slotted rotors (= approx. 120 ft)
3) Upgrade Brake system; calipers, lines, rotors, pads, etc. (= approx. 120 ft)

Seriously. The tires are the limiting factor when it comes to stopping distance.

People are upgrading their brakes for more heat fade resistance on the track. Sometimes brake feel, and yeah, sometimes looks. You don't gain much if anything in terms of stopping distance.

Even with a big brake kit with fancy monobloc calipers...you don't really reduces stopping distance much. It's to be able to go lap after lap at the track without overheating. At best you'll gain a few feet, maybe more if you've already upgraded your tires.

I have seen BBKs increase stopping distances because they were poorly designed.

- Andy

[Racecomp Engineering]

What do you want to improve? Pedal feel? Fade resistance? Is this a daily driven car? Any track time or auto-x?

- Andy

[nalc]

What happens when you slam on the brakes now? I'll bet your car leaves skid marks. You know what that means? Your brakes are able to completely stop the rotation of the wheels (except for the small amount of rotation that anti-lock brakes allow to maintain directional control), and the friction between the now stationary tires and the road are slowing you down. If your stock brakes can stop the wheels, why would more powerful brakes reduce stopping distance? The only way to do that is to increase the coefficient of friction between the tires and the road, and that's done by going to wider and/or stickier tires, not by brakes.

As Andy said, the benefit from larger brake rotors and bigger calipers is that they the capacity to absorb more heat. So the first time you use them won't be any different, but after you've stood on the brake pedal a couple times in a row, factory brakes will be overheating and loose effectiveness, whereas larger brakes won't. That's why he is asking about how you use it - track or autocross will entail many uses of the brakes in a short time, and will have a benefit. Daily driving or occasionally hooning around, you're not going to do a dozen emergency stops from high speeds in a row.

[wheelhaus]

Andy nailed it. Tire grip is ultimately what is stopping the car. Increase grip and you can shorten stopping distances.

For some basic improvements:
Better pads and fluid are typically the first step toward better heat and fade resistance for spirited driving or track days. Slotted or drilled rotors help this a bit by further by shedding heat better and scraping the pad surface slightly cleaner to prevent glazing.

SS brake lines and a master cylinder brace will help improve feel (firmer pedal and better feedback).

[bear89103]

What i'm feeling right now is not that I'm skidding. It's just that when I depress the brake pedal, I feel the car slowing at a pace that's slower, so I feel I have to brake earlier. I would like the proverbial "stop on a dime". I have a decent set of tires. I am running a set of sumitomo HTR Ziii 245/40r18.

For instance, when compared to my sister's totally stock Nissan Cube, when I'm driving, and I press down on the brake pedal, it's almost as if my body is launched forward a little because it brakes so quickly and stops fairly immediately.

[raul]

Originally Posted by bear89103

What i'm feeling right now is not that I'm skidding. It's just that when I depress the brake pedal, I feel the car slowing at a pace that's slower, so I feel I have to brake earlier. I would like the proverbial "stop on a dime". I have a decent set of tires. I am running a set of sumitomo HTR Ziii 245/40r18.

For instance, when compared to my sister's totally stock Nissan Cube, when I'm driving, and I press down on the brake pedal, it's almost as if my body is launched forward a little because it brakes so quickly and stops fairly immediately.

Just get a pad with an aggressive initial bite.

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by bear89103

What i'm feeling right now is not that I'm skidding. It's just that when I depress the brake pedal, I feel the car slowing at a pace that's slower, so I feel I have to brake earlier. I would like the proverbial "stop on a dime". I have a decent set of tires. I am running a set of sumitomo HTR Ziii 245/40r18.

For instance, when compared to my sister's totally stock Nissan Cube, when I'm driving, and I press down on the brake pedal, it's almost as if my body is launched forward a little because it brakes so quickly and stops fairly immediately.

It is probably this way from the factory as it's more easy to modulate the brake power...this car was designed with heel and toe in mind.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Lets say stock is 120 ft. It would be more like this:

1) Upgrade Brake PADS (= approx. 120 ft)
2) Upgrade Brake PADS, Brake Lines, and drilled/slotted rotors (= approx. 120 ft)
3) Upgrade Brake system; calipers, lines, rotors, pads, etc. (= approx. 120 ft)

Seriously. The tires are the limiting factor when it comes to stopping distance.

People are upgrading their brakes for more heat fade resistance on the track. Sometimes brake feel, and yeah, sometimes looks. You don't gain much if anything in terms of stopping distance.

Even with a big brake kit with fancy monobloc calipers...you don't really reduces stopping distance much. It's to be able to go lap after lap at the track without overheating. At best you'll gain a few feet, maybe more if you've already upgraded your tires.

I have seen BBKs increase stopping distances because they were poorly designed.

- Andy

I couldn't have said it better

[Hanakuso]

Technically with a lightweight kit like Essex, I would assume the stopping distance would be reduced.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

Technically with a lightweight kit like Essex, I would assume the stopping distance would be reduced.

True, but not through "more stopping power."

Honestly, there is plenty to gain from brake upgrades and even better pedal feel is worth something for a street car. Just don't want anyone to think they'll be able to improve stopping distances drastically without changing tires.

- Andy

[bear89103]

@CSG Mike and @Racecomp Engineering - What do you guys think would help me with my situation as i described in post #6

[Draco-REX]

As mentioned above, you want brake pads with a higher initial bite. I'd recommend the Carbotech street pads or AutoX pads.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Lets say stock is 120 ft. It would be more like this:

1) Upgrade Brake PADS (= approx. 120 ft)
2) Upgrade Brake PADS, Brake Lines, and drilled/slotted rotors (= approx. 120 ft)
3) Upgrade Brake system; calipers, lines, rotors, pads, etc. (= approx. 120 ft)

Seriously. The tires are the limiting factor when it comes to stopping distance.

People are upgrading their brakes for more heat fade resistance on the track. Sometimes brake feel, and yeah, sometimes looks. You don't gain much if anything in terms of stopping distance.

Even with a big brake kit with fancy monobloc calipers...you don't really reduces stopping distance much. It's to be able to go lap after lap at the track without overheating. At best you'll gain a few feet, maybe more if you've already upgraded your tires.

I have seen BBKs increase stopping distances because they were poorly designed.

- Andy

Damn I wish I could use the Thanks button like 20 times on this post...