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Old 07-20-2019, 07:02 AM   #435
Captain Snooze
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Originally Posted by Summerwolf View Post

Also, wtf is "stage 1 cams" in relation to lt / ls tuning!?!? Lol. Please explain.
All it takes is a bit of research.
Stage 1 cams are one better than Stage 0 cams but one less than Stage 2 cams.



Here is a pic of 2 Stage cams.


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Old 07-20-2019, 09:21 AM   #436
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I'll say! Took 40 years of R&D to get there but when they did it they really did it. They must plan on selling a shitload of them at that price point.
Apparently there were plans to do it 10 years ago and then the Great Recession hit. There was also someone over on the VW Vortex who apparently used to work down the hall from Juechter. He stated that the cost of the program is a small incremental over the C7 (and about the same as the cost of going from C6 to C7), so it should be profitable.
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Old 07-20-2019, 09:24 AM   #437
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The good-ish news is that it will be coming to Australia at around AUD$150,00.
Canadian pricing is $70,000. Deal of the century.
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:44 AM   #438
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Does anyone else think it's funny that, on a forum where we have specifically chosen cars with lower performance/price ratios than quite a few others in the market, we are looking at a price/performance ratio and judging a car based on that?

I mean it looks great and probably sounds great, and it's fast AF, but I highly doubt it will be any more fun than a twin bombing down back roads.

That being said.... Oh boy do I want one badly.
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:00 PM   #439
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This is the first GM car I have ever had any interest in.



The C7 is actually a great performance bargain, but I just had no desire for one. Corvettes to me were just retirement presents for old guys in hawaiian shirts who like to drive slow in the left lane.


This could be different. A grand sport version could push me to buy. That interior is a mess though.
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:24 PM   #440
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Does anyone else think it's funny that, on a forum where we have specifically chosen cars with lower performance/price ratios than quite a few others in the market, we are looking at a price/performance ratio and judging a car based on that?
.


I wouldn't say the 86 is low on performance per dollar spent. It isn't the most powerful in a straight line, but it can hold its own in performance to cars that are much more expensive. Moreover, there is the intangibles like how it makes a person feel or how it behaves that increase its value. The 86 is also affordable, but many will eventually graduate from the 86 to more expensive cars as their incomes grow, so it isn't an odd thing to speculate on more expensive cars. We also have guys here who have moved from Lotus' or Cayman's to the 86 because it is a cheaper track car or because they can get better performance for an equal investment after tuning/modifications, so cross shopping talk may seem odd or out of place, but it isn't.
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:36 PM   #441
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Originally Posted by gymratter View Post
Lots of good info here.

Base motor has a dry sump
Base chassis coil overs
Rims/tires same a C7 Z51

Z51 adds: (If I'm reading it correctly)
Performance suspension with manually adjustable threaded spring seats.
PS4 performance tires
Larger brake rotors with Z51 logo on calipers.
Enhanced cooling.
Electronic LSD, Specific axle ratio.
Front brake cooling inlets.
Performance exhaust.
Z51 Specific splitter and spoiler

Brake Type:

Front and rear E-boost-assisted discs with Brembo four-piston/two-piece front calipers and four-piston/monobloc rear calipers

With Z51 – Front and rear E-boost-assisted discs with Brembo four-piston monobloc caliper at front and rear


I'm a bit at a loss as to what the Z51 package adds to get it to sub 3 seconds in 0-60 less maybe the axle ratio and performance exhaust. I would think base should be close.


There's a big difference in bundled packages 1LT, 2LT and 3LT, with 3LT having a lot of expensive fluff. Nice to have but doesn't do a lot for performance.

I'd like to get pricing on a base model, 1LT with Z51.

If money wasn't an object,,, 3LT for the seats and color choices. lots of $$$ though

1LT (Base)

8-Way Power GT1 Seats
GT1 Seats – Mulan Leather
Keyless Access with Push-Button Start
Driver Mode Selector and Valet Mode
Dual-Zone Electronic Climate Control
Locking Glove Box
HD Rear Vision Camera and Rear Park Assist†
Leather-Wrapped Flat-Bottom Steering Wheel
Bose 10-speaker Audio System
SiriusXM Satellite Radio®† for Three Months
8-inch Diagonal Color touch-screen
Chevrolet Infotainment 3 System†
12-inch Color Driver Information Center
Bluetooth® Phone Connection† and Phone Projection
Steering Wheel-Mounted Controls
Power Windows Express-Up/-Down
Visors with Illuminated Vanity Mirrors
Power Tilt/Telescoping Steering Wheel
Cabin Air Filtration

2LT

Head-Up Display
Power Lumbar and Wing Adjustment
Wireless Phone Charging†
Heated and Vented Seats
Heated Steering Wheel
Bose Performance Series 14-Speaker Audio System
Navigation with Traffic†
Performance Data Recorder
SiriusXM satellite Radio®† with 1-year Subscription
Universal Home Remote Sun Visor
Power-Folding Mirrors
Rear Camera Mirror† – Coupe
Memory Package
Curb View Camera†
Side Blind Zone Alert†
Rear Cross Traffic Alert†
Advanced Theft-Deterrent System
Parcel Nets

3LT

GT2 Seats with Napa Leather and Carbon-Fiber Trim
Custom Leather-Wrapped Interior
Suede-Wrapped Upper Interior Trim
Leather-Wrapped Lower Doors
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:40 PM   #442
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Does anyone else think it's funny that, on a forum where we have specifically chosen cars with lower performance/price ratios than quite a few others in the market, we are looking at a price/performance ratio and judging a car based on that?

I'd say its the opposite. The 86 and the C8 are some the best bargain sports cars you can buy. They just aren't direct competitors. I chose an 86 over a Cayman for the exact same reasons that I would choose a C8 over a Ferrari.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:15 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by Spuds View Post
Does anyone else think it's funny that, on a forum where we have specifically chosen cars with lower performance/price ratios than quite a few others in the market, we are looking at a price/performance ratio and judging a car based on that?

I mean it looks great and probably sounds great, and it's fast AF, but I highly doubt it will be any more fun than a twin bombing down back roads.

That being said.... Oh boy do I want one badly.
Counterpoint: The C7, despite its size, is ridiculously capable and fun. My co-worker has a Z51 that he got for his 50th and it's wonderful to cruise in or take sprints down back roads. Yeah, you cannot extract all its power or capabilities on the street, but it feels absolutely dialed-in. The nice thing about the LT1 (and LT2) are that you don't need to wring them out to experience all the engine has to offer. Going mid-engined is just going to make it that much more enjoyable.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:26 PM   #444
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I am a Toyota fanboi but the big T could learn a lesson from this.
Most people miss the point of Toyota + their recent sports car lineup... they are all not produced by Toyota.

This is a long term strategy, most likely as a combination of factory production capability + available partners on the marketplace willing to help produce a new car with tangible benefits for all parties.

If Toyota can learn a lesson from this, it's this: the last time they produced a dedicated sports car in-house, it ended up eating away a large chunk of their profits. They have learned from it and really there's no need for a dedicated production line just to make a sports car that won't be anywhere close to GM in terms of volume.

Plus, plenty of contract manufacturers available out there to help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Steyr

For the average person like you and me, GM seems to win this in every way possible.

For the corporate executives at Toyota, the way the Supra was put into production is about as perfect as they can get it, given the current global political and economical climate.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:50 PM   #445
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For the corporate executives at Toyota, the way the Supra was put into production is about as perfect as they can get it, given the current global political and economical climate.
I.e. their substantial quarterly bonuses stay intact.

I would never own the Supra. I’ve worked on BMWs, I’ve driven BMWs. Not for me, in any way.

Seriously looking at selling off the bikes and BRZ, waiting for the first old man to trade a C8 back in with 800 miles.

Hopefully the dealers don’t throw some wheels and tint on them to sell as a “limited edition” with a $30k markup. Or just wait till the z06 comes out and stingray price falls off. Excited to see where these go.
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:09 PM   #446
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Toyota did not have to design a new engine for the Supra. They have plenty of engines that would have fit the bill in the Lexus line. "It is not a Supra without a inline 6 cylinder and a turbo" Yeah, that was what the purist said and what Toyota seems to have believed. Now the automotive world is asking the question, "Is a car that has a BMW drivetrain and all BMW suspension, control and bits still a Supra?"

Well, the Corvette purist said, "The Corvette is a front engine car!" Chevrolet said, "Not any more it isn't. Now, it is a mid-engine, affordable super car challenger!" The plant manager from Bowling Green stated that they started planning and investing to the tune of 755 million USD. to retool to build this car 5 years ago and will soon double their shifts to build it. That is a substantial investment.

Both Toyota and General Motors made a hard choice when they introduced their new models of their most iconic sportscars. Based on what I am reading from virtually every automotive site, I think the automotive world believes that GM made the better choice.
There is absolutely zero comparison. The Corvette will sell at minimum 20,000, but can easily sell 40,000 or more cars per year. The Supra might sell 12,000 a year. Plus GM puts a ton of stock in the Corvette race team, and I am sure part of that budget goes into developing the new car. And when it comes down to it, reasonably specced the Corvette will probably be $20,000 more than a Supra.

Toyota really needs to worry about the Camaro more. It is slowly becoming the bargain track car.
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:15 PM   #447
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Does anyone else think it's funny that, on a forum where we have specifically chosen cars with lower performance/price ratios than quite a few others in the market, we are looking at a price/performance ratio and judging a car based on that?

I mean it looks great and probably sounds great, and it's fast AF, but I highly doubt it will be any more fun than a twin bombing down back roads.

That being said.... Oh boy do I want one badly.
I have almost zero interest in even driving one. I might have fantasized about it 30 years ago but since then I've experienced, handled enough raw speed to find my own personal happy zone. I like bombing around in a silly machine with skinny tires way more than being cocooned inside a box using a fraction of its potential. Big fat sticky tires for 200 yard bursts of speed? Nah.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:38 PM   #448
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I.e. their substantial quarterly bonuses stay intact
Of course, but the same thing applies to GM.

I was mostly referring to this as a purely economics driven decision from a production cost perspective. GM has existing capability to make this car + the target audience would not accept anything else. Toyota did not want to take on the cost of developing a new production line to make this car and chose an existing car manufacturer to assist with 3rd party production.
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