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Old 03-14-2020, 08:38 PM   #29
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Not likely. The Supra is just a BMW, built by BMW (actually Magna Steyr) in their plant in Graz, Austria. A manual would only be possible if BMW made one for it, and they don't seem to have any interest in designing, certifying, and manufacturing a manual transmission for the small incremental increase in sales it might offer.

I recall reading someplace Toyota saying that if you want a manual transmission, you should by a 86/BRZ. Hopefully a manual will still be offered in the next generation car. But with manuals as a percentage of total sales continuing to decline, I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota decides it's not worth it, and only offers an automatic.

That's why I recently bought my new 2019 BRZ. I only wanted a manual (and red), and didn't want to take the chance that the next gen car wouldn't have one. If it turns out to be irresistible, I'll get one. Until then, I'm having a blast with my car.
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/22/...mission-supra/

BMW already offers a manual transmission on the base model 4cyl Z4 in Europe which is why many people were hoping Toyota would do the same when they announced the 4cyl Supra would be coming to the States.

Granted, BMW only offers the manual with the lower powered 195hp 4cylinder and not the 255hp tuned engine (which seems to be the one the US supra will get) and maybe that's why Toyota didn't do it. But who knows it's all speculation at this point
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Old 04-02-2020, 10:42 PM   #30
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I wish Toyota canceled 86 and released the new mid-engine MR2 still using FA20. And Subaru would just release new BRZ with a turbo FA20 and upscale interior.


If Toyota pulled out don't you think Subaru would instantly kill off its only non 4 wheel drive car in its line up?
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Old 04-03-2020, 08:18 AM   #31
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Well, the way I see it, if I want a one piece carbon driveshaft, I paid for a useless stock steel driveshaft on top of it. If i want a backseat delete, i paid for those for nothing, if I want shocks and springs, I've got a set of useless ones under the car now that cost a good chunk of change at the factory. Same with a lighter Ti catback.

Not having parts duplication is always cheaper, the question would be, what kind of markup would that added performance warrant? I'd wager paying for the upcharge would beat the price to do it after the fact.

You can sell all that stuff. If the manufacturer did it you would need to pay double.
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:18 AM   #32
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Well, the way I see it, if I want a one piece carbon driveshaft, I paid for a useless stock steel driveshaft on top of it. If i want a backseat delete, i paid for those for nothing, if I want shocks and springs, I've got a set of useless ones under the car now that cost a good chunk of change at the factory. Same with a lighter Ti catback.

Not having parts duplication is always cheaper, the question would be, what kind of markup would that added performance warrant? I'd wager paying for the upcharge would beat the price to do it after the fact.
Sounds like you want to pay mass produced prices for a totally custom car. Not gonna happen. Those heavier cheaper parts make the car affordable and keep it from competing with more expensive cars.

A perfect example is the Subaru STI S209. All trick parts from the factory and it’s 64k, which is absurd for that car. I would build a 22b custom for way less and perform better.

What you want would cost so much you would be buying others cars in that price range.

I always felt that the aftermarket usually provides what’s needed or wanted. Sure you pay more but it’s over time, you can sell Oem parts and for most of us it’s fun to do the mods and see the improvements.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:04 PM   #33
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If Toyota pulled out don't you think Subaru would instantly kill off its only non 4 wheel drive car in its line up?
There is no other sports car in Subaru lineup. BRZ is good for their brand image and nicely complements their product portfolio. I think they would keep BRZ disregarding the economic mess following the pandemic. And they would be able to have the car as a competitor to Supra. I can see an NA and a turbo STI model.

Given that Toyota will have three models of Supra in a wide performance and price range, they might just need another Celica or MR2 as the next 86.

Joint production of 86/BRZ looks like a conflict of interest to me.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:10 PM   #34
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There is no other sports car in Subaru lineup. BRZ is good for their brand image and nicely complements their product portfolio. I think they would keep BRZ disregarding the economic mess following the pandemic. And they would be able to have the car as a competitor to Supra. I can see an NA and a turbo STI model.
Not sure they would, if Toyota dropped out. Remember they have a factory dedicated to this production, and what keeps the line running is the combined total of units.

If you drop the Toyota units out, Subaru would either have to build/sell more BRZs (unlikely) or they would have to retool the factory to build more than one car (also seems unlikely) or reduce the number of cars coming out of the factory, which probably doesn't make sense either.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:12 PM   #35
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There is no other sports car in Subaru lineup. BRZ is good for their brand image and nicely complements their product portfolio. I think they would keep BRZ disregarding the economic mess following the pandemic. And they would be able to have the car as a competitor to Supra. I can see an NA and a turbo STI model.

Given that Toyota will have three models of Supra in a wide performance and price range, they might just need another Celica or MR2 as the next 86.

Joint production of 86/BRZ looks like a conflict of interest to me.
what variant of the supra comes below 30 K....? go to japan, asia, australia, etc....4 cyl supra is still very expensive, 86 makes a hell of a lot more sense...in japan the 4 cyl supra is literally double the cost of the 86. The US is pretty much the only market that has a good price for both the 86 and supra even then there is a good price difference between 4 cyl supra and 86...

MR2 is a silly pipedream that doesn't work in this day and age of the automotive world. yes, let's add more complexity and development costs for a cheap sports car fine just the way it is. if you really want a MR sports car, go get an elise...
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:13 PM   #36
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Not sure they would, if Toyota dropped out. Remember they have a factory dedicated to this production, and what keeps the line running is the combined total of units.

If you drop the Toyota units out, Subaru would either have to build/sell more BRZs (unlikely) or they would have to retool the factory to build more than one car (also seems unlikely) or reduce the number of cars coming out of the factory, which probably doesn't make sense either.
Yeah, they might just drop BRZ if that is the case.

Edit: But Supra is more expensive and sells better. If they make an upscaled turbo BRZ, it might sell more than current BRZ. They could use all of that capacity for just Subaru.

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Old 04-03-2020, 12:42 PM   #37
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what variant of the supra comes below 30 K....? go to japan, asia, australia, etc....4 cyl supra is still very expensive, 86 makes a hell of a lot more sense...in japan the 4 cyl supra is literally double the cost of the 86. The US is pretty much the only market that has a good price for both the 86 and supra even then there is a good price difference between 4 cyl supra and 86...

MR2 is a silly pipedream that doesn't work in this day and age of the automotive world. yes, let's add more complexity and development costs for a cheap sports car fine just the way it is. if you really want a MR sports car, go get an elise...
Hyundai would like to have a word with you.

I fail to see why a MR layout alone would be anymore complex than a FF.
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:27 PM   #38
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Hyundai would like to have a word with you.

I fail to see why a MR layout alone would be anymore complex than a FF.
eh, how much is that hyundai going to cost? if it comes below $40 K, I would be impressed but hard to imagine that.

drivetrain sure, but the separate platform, chassis, development costs and tooling wise it doesn't make sense for a cheap sports car..
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Old 04-03-2020, 03:41 PM   #39
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If the BRZ gets too pricey, the WRX or STI come into play. Sure they are not the same but the practicality could win in that price range.
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:00 PM   #40
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eh, how much is that hyundai going to cost? if it comes below $40 K, I would be impressed but hard to imagine that.

drivetrain sure, but the separate platform, chassis, development costs and tooling wise it doesn't make sense for a cheap sports car..
I can very well see that price being only slightly above the Veloster N. If it was going to be more expensive than let's say 40k USD, I'd bet it would be under the Genesis branding and not Hyundai.
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:28 PM   #41
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Edit: But Supra is more expensive and sells better. If they make an upscaled turbo BRZ, it might sell more than current BRZ. They could use all of that capacity for just Subaru.
Supra is in it's honeymoon, early sales days. It won't be selling this many when it's 8 years old if there have been no changes. It may not even sell as many as the 86 is now, at that point.
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:43 PM   #42
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Supra is in it's honeymoon, early sales days. It won't be selling this many when it's 8 years old if there have been no changes. It may not even sell as many as the 86 is now, at that point.
Sure, that is a good argument. We will see next year.
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