Official Formula 1 thread

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

I give Adrian Newey more credit than Vettel. If you have a car as amazing on aero and as kind on the tires as his RB9, it's hard NOT to go fast. I mean the guy was running practically NO rear wing and still held better apex speeds than anyone else running twice as much wing....

And sucks for Kimi... I like him a lot. In fact I like all three of the "others" a lot (Alo/Ham/Rai). Problem is they keep taking points away from EACH OTHER while Vettel walks away with the rest. :/

If teammate Webber showed the same result, I'd agree (notwithstanding Webber's seeming inability to launch from a standing start).

[cfusionpm]

Webber probably doesn't run exactly the same parts or exactly the same setups. It's clear which teammate RBR actually cares about, which car gets the priority, which preferences are favored, etc, and it's definitely not the Aussie leaving for Porsche next year.

It also plays right into the theory that Newey's cars work best in clean air and struggle in traffic.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by torqdork

If teammate Webber showed the same result, I'd agree (notwithstanding Webber's seeming inability to launch from a standing start).

Webber would never be as fast as Vettel... why? Because RedBull. The #2 driver REALLY is #2 come Hell or high-water. If Jesus Christ was the #2 driver at RB even he would finish behind Vettel. He might be able to walk on water but being #2 @ RB and finishing in front of Vettel is a miracle I doubt even Christ could perform.

Sorry, but Daniel Riccardo better hope Seb gets struck by lightning or something if he ever hopes of being anything other than "that other guy at RB".

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Webber would never be as fast as Vettel... why? Because RedBull. The #2 driver REALLY is #2 come Hell or high-water. If Jesus Christ was the #2 driver at RB even he would finish behind Vettel. He might be able to walk on water but being #2 @ RB and finishing in front of Vettel is a miracle I doubt even Christ could perform.

Sorry, but Daniel Riccardo better hope Seb gets struck by lightning or something if he ever hopes of being anything other than "that other guy at RB".

Also most likely why Kimi never considered RB seriously.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Webber would never be as fast as Vettel... why? Because RedBull. The #2 driver REALLY is #2 come Hell or high-water. If Jesus Christ was the #2 driver at RB even he would finish behind Vettel. He might be able to walk on water but being #2 @ RB and finishing in front of Vettel is a miracle I doubt even Christ could perform.

Sorry, but Daniel Riccardo better hope Seb gets struck by lightning or something if he ever hopes of being anything other than "that other guy at RB".

If you ever have the misfortune of doing better then Vettel, or even LOOKING like you're going to do better than Vettel, you have "unfortunate" pit stops.

[headlikeahole]

Originally Posted by torqdork

Also most likely why Kimi never considered RB seriously.

Knowing Kimi, it would be really hard for RBR to keep him in line. Short of giving him a slower car there isn't much they could do to keep him from attacking Vettel.

[GTB/ZR-1]

And I'd venture to say if they pair Kimi with Freddy, there'd be no shortage of fireworks @ Ferrari either...

[rice_classic]

This long read below is worth the time. I like Vettel, but my current dislike of Vettel is that he races for RedBull and I don't like Redbull primarily because I think they're shysters. What Horner did to Mercedes (and consequently to Pirelli) and what he's doing now.

And this..

How Horner holds the key to the driver market

It might not seem at first glance that Christian Horner is controlling Formula 1's driver market, but as Dieter Rencken explains, the Red Bull team principal holds all the aces in his hands

One of the most fascinating aspects of the 'Who will fill Mark Webber's cockpit?' conundrum has been the back story; the jostling for position by teams and their principals, managers and headline sponsors.

It all kicked off, of course, with the Australian's late-June announcement that he would beswitching to Porsche and endurance racing from 2014.

The timing wrong-footed Red Bull Racing, and there exists evidence to suggest that Webber, who at times felt surplus to requirements, kept the drinks company's head honcho Dietrich Mateschitz in the loop, but failed to grant team boss Christian Horner the same courtesy.

Over the years Red Bull has invested an estimated ￡150million (excluding F1) into various young-driver programmes, one of which unearthed the talent of Sebastian Vettel. But aside from the triple world champion, there has been little to shout about as Jaime Alguersuari, Michael Ammermuller, Filipe Albuquerque, Mikhail Aleshin and plenty of others discovered how rapidly Red Bull's rotating door spins.

In fact, Wikipedia devotes a full feature to ex-Red Bull drivers, a list that features only drivers to have made it to international level running to 35 names, of which 13 achieved Formula 1 race seats.

Of these, only Vettel has won a grand prix despite the company entering four cars at every grand prix, and as a result, the entire Red Bull F1 programme effectively revolves around him.

While it's true that the total spend to date on the Red Bull Junior programme is a fraction of the combined annual budgets of Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso, it would be logical to assume that the company would prefer to promote a graduate of its own programme to the top echelon than buy in from elsewhere.

But logic and Red Bull have never exactly been bedfellows, have they?

Daniel Ricciardo, having performed solidly rather than spectacularly at Toro Rosso, soon found himself in the frame to replace Webber and remains firmly on Horner's shortlist. As Edd Straw argues, the Australian certainly deserves consideration.

That said, his results to date don't make him a natural successor to nine-time grand prix winner Webber. Thus Kimi Raikkonen entered the picture.

This is where the situation became complicated, for the Finn, who won the 2007 world championship with Ferrari, is hardly the type of driver to take a back seat position to Vettel, and his management group is certainly not prepared to accept number-two status or money, especially with him currently lying second to the German in the points.

He is, however, disillusioned with not having a consistently winning car, and above all else Raikkonen wants to win.

As a negotiating ploy, Red Bull's advances worked perfectly, keeping pressure on Ricciardo while setting Lotus back. With the Enstone-based team battling recently to pay the Finn's wages, the lure of the lucre - not to mention the theoretical chance of taking on Vettel in identical machinery - caused his mind to wander.

Then Kimi's representative Steve Robertson, who, together with father David, massaged their young charge's route from karting through to F1 via FRenault, told AUTOSPORT negotiations had broken down, ostensibly clearing the way for Ricciardo.

Had the talks really failed, or was it simply a means of squeezing more from the Red Bull pip - or the Lotus pulp? Was it even a means of opening a door to Ferrari?

While all this was happening in the week leading up to the Belgian GP, Fernando Alonso was explaining - unconvincingly - that he was settled and going nowhere.

He had been linked to Red Bull post-Hungary following leaks revealing that his own management team had been in talks with the champion constructor in Budapest.

However, manager Luis Garcia Abad maintained he had made contact with Horner to pursue options for another of his clients, Red Bull-backed GP3 racer Carlos Sainz Jr - whose father, Carlos Sr, won the 1990 and '92 World Rally Championships.

As one team boss pointed out, Carlos Sr has done all his son's bidding to date, making minds wander about Garcia's true intentions.

While this was happening, Ferrari president Luca di Montezmolo and team principal Stefano Domenicali issued rallying cries to the Maranello corps. The former rebuked Alonso for alleged comments - now put down to a misunderstanding - made in the wake of a below-par Hungarian result, while the latter reacted to suggestions that Raikkonen could return to the Scuderia, either as replacement for Alonso (should he join Red Bull) or Felipe Massa.

And so we arrived at the unusual mid-season scenario of having the number one driver at each of the top three teams feeling rather unsettled; Vettel by talk that he could be joined by either Alonso or Raikkonen at Red Bull, Alonso by speculation that Raikkonen could return to Ferrari and both the Scuderia and Lotus by rumours that either (or both) could be about to lose their foremost cockpit assets.

Alonso and Raikkonen know their careers are slowly drawing to a close, and each considers it a travesty that Vettel has won three consecutive titles while they have a maximum of two - won at least five years ago. No wonder they're unsettled, particularly as Red Bull seems sure to start 2014's 'green era' as strongly as it will finish the current V8 period.

All this unease comes at a time when the championship is delicately poised; at a time when it has nine races remaining over 14 weeks and so faces a pressure-cooker period as it flits across the globe.

The uncertainty could, though, have been ended on the first day back after F1's summer holidays through the simple expedient of Red Bull announcing Ricciardo as Vettel's 2014 shotgunner. But Red Bull is in no hurry to do so; it can afford to drag things out and watch dissention brew within its rivals.

Red Bull owns Ricciardo hook, line and sinker - so its banker is going nowhere outside the 'family'. It can therefore wait to see what happens elsewhere. If Lotus cannot afford to pay Raikkonen, he will be available at a bargain-basement rate, and Alonso could get tired of having yet another title slip through Ferrari's fingers... As long as both drivers know the second seat at Red Bull is still available, who knows how they will be thinking?

While Vettel may get a bit jumpy, the team can allay his fears, and maybe even persuade him to play along. A jumpy Kimi, lumpy Fernando or frumpy Lewis Hamilton is less of a threat, you might think.

Hamilton? Read on. Not content with watching Lotus and Ferrari twitching, Horner chucked yet another curveball into the paddock by suggesting that he had more options than many realised.

What could these be? Jenson Button, who admitted his immediate future was far from settled? Nico Hulkenberg, highly rated but frustrated at Sauber? Nico Rosberg at Mercedes? The German's mercurial team-mate Hamilton?

Then there is the domino effect. Should XY leave Team AB for BC, would Pastor Maldonado take his PVDSA millions to AB, or use any such overtures as leverage at Williams? Adrian Sutil has long fancied himself as a Ferrari driver, and so on.

The overall implications in the paddock of that single comment from Horner are endless, and in the process of answering a simple media question he managed to get two more teams, possibly three or four, furtively looking over their shoulders as they reach for their drivers' contracts.

Horner also added that negotiations with Raikkonen were far from over, certainly from his perspective. Where the driver market was dead quiet through to Hungary, it is now alive and writhing.

And while it's true that journalists at Spa normally witness F1's silly season in full swing, this time there is a major difference.

Where previously a single driver held the key to the market, now it is a team boss who holds court - and he is playing the role to perfection.

[strat61caster]

Very surprised that Red Bull actually stuck with their development program, also surprised that Vettel signed through 2015, I think it was wise for them as drivers but I just had a different gut feeling.

Alonso will likely retire from Ferrari, I think Button is in the same boat. Rosberg and Hamilton will be with Mercedes through 2014 to see if they really do get an advantage from the factory engines although they may jump ship soon after. Raikkonen is the only other big name that could shake things up, I figured he'd be in a Red Bull come winter but he's still got Lotus Ferrari and Mclaren potential.

I wouldn't be surprised if he sticks with Lotus, people forget that it's a winning team with 4 drivers championships over the past 20 years, more than anyone except Ferrari, you'd have to go back 30 years to put Mclaren and Williams ahead.

I think Vettel's on track to get his fourth championship this year unless there is a scandal or a huge leap from his competitors.

[7thgear]

what's a good place, free or paid, that i could watch full coverage of an entire F1 season.

i want to know more about the sport, but it seems what's generally available are small clips here and there or everything in text format.

i don't have a TV so the internet is my only source for things.

are there boxed sets of seasons or anything of that sort?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

are there boxed sets of seasons or anything of that sort?

I thought there was but all I can find is highlights. Honestly I'd recommend the less than legal methods of obtaining F1.

I can't wait until mainstream entertainment starts offering reasonably priced DRM free high quality downloads.

I'd pay $40 for a seasons worth of HD BBC coverage downloaded or streamed. Until then torrenting is the easiest option, an Antenna will catch the races broadcast on NBC in HD (it's better quality than any cable or satellite feed I've seen) but most of them are on some backwater channel.

[rice_classic]

Goddamnit Redbull.

If it doesn't rain then the race probably isn't worth watching. Glad my Seahawks are playing tomorrow, at least there's hope of someone I like winning!

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Goddamnit Redbull.

If it doesn't rain then the race probably isn't worth watching. Glad my Seahawks are playing tomorrow, at least there's hope of someone I like winning!

It'll be Canada all over again. Get a lead and walk away without contention. For once I'd like to see Vettel actually earn his wins by coming through the pack. Hopefully Alonso will make some good moves on his opening lap (like he usually does) and put up a good fight. He doesn't have many of the usual suspects to deal with, and if he works with Massa to get a draft (assuming he doesn't pass him) it could be very useful catching Vettel. One can only hope. I'm getting really sick of seeing Newey win everything. Even a Mercedes win would be nice again, but poor Hamilton got held up on the one lap that mattered. :/

[GTB/ZR-1]

Freddy over-drove in qualy & the drafting business w/ Massa failed. His only chance is getting a great start & max attacking to get to the front & hope Seb doesn't try & run him off the track like he did last year.

He has massive motivation, especially w/ Luca lurking in the background & the Tifosi urging him on. I honestly don't think anyone else will have a chance if he can't get up & try to & challenge Seb. Weber normally doesn't go well there...

It'll be interesting to see how far Hamilton & Kimi can move up the grid.

Unfortunately, I see Seb & RB w/ a 4-peat in '13...