CAN BUS - for DIY swappers, HELP! Engineers / shops welcome

[T0rt0r0]

Originally Posted by geraldjust

Hmm looked back on my emails and i cant find you. Most of my emails about that topic usually go two ways. If they need help with something simple im more than happy to help. But if they ask to have the code to get everything working perfectly then im hesitant because ive had someone try to make adapters and pass it as their own work. So those late nights i worked by butt off simply to have someone ask for everything then make there own left a bad taste in my mouth.

So what was it that you needed help on?

Also looked over your code. Is it mostly UIDs with OBD frames.

Again ive already shared my code with many people here in the forums too. Just a matter of what people's intentions are with it.

We've exchanged some emails about how to drive the temp gauge to show the oil temp but anyway I've since found solutions that suits my needs.

"Also looked over your code. Is it mostly UIDs with OBD frames"

What did you expect ? ^^

[geraldjust]

Originally Posted by T0rt0r0

We've exchanged some emails about how to drive the temp gauge to show the oil temp but anyway I've since found solutions that suits my needs.

"Also looked over your code. Is it mostly UIDs with OBD frames"

What did you expect ? ^^

OHHHHHHHHHH that was you! lol. Well driving the temp guage using the OEM cabus data was not possible with the data i had. The only way possible was using some UID data to switch those two. Which you hit the nail on the head with how you implemented it. So what you were proposing at the time i could not help you. Since the approach had to be different.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by geraldjust

hmm do you have hardware yourself to get started? Thats very ambitious! IF you ever get stuck somewhere let me know. Il nudge you in the right direction.
Ive mapped like 95% of the Canbus network so il can give some advice when you need it.

Also take into account there are some hardware differences between the Push Start and Turn key cars that have to deal with the Immo system and also how its wires thought he ECU harness. And Again also some other IDs in Auto AC cars vs Manual AC.

Swapped car with Motec. As far as I understand it, the fuel level calculation is done outside of the Motec. The first tank of gas after the swap, the car read properly. My theory is that this happened because all throughout that first tank of gas, we removed/reconnected the battery a bunch of times, always "recalibrating" the gauge and thus it read correctly up until the end.

Subsequent tanks run out at 1/4 tank. If I disconnect the battery and reconnect it, it seems something gets recalibrated and the fuel gauge reads properly again, but it only lasts until I refill then it goes back to running out exactly at 1/4. I tried opening both sides of the tank to see if I could see anything wrong (the fuel gauge worked flawlessly for 5 years before the swap) and nothing seemed out of sorts... I believe also that if I clear codes on the other car ECUs (ABS/A/C, etc..) (the stock one is not there anymore), the fuel gauge starts reading correctly but again reverts back once I refill it.

Do you have any ideas? Thanks.

[geraldjust]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Swapped car with Motec. As far as I understand it, the fuel level calculation is done outside of the Motec. The first tank of gas after the swap, the car read properly. My theory is that this happened because all throughout that first tank of gas, we removed/reconnected the battery a bunch of times, always "recalibrating" the gauge and thus it read correctly up until the end.

Subsequent tanks run out at 1/4 tank. If I disconnect the battery and reconnect it, it seems something gets recalibrated and the fuel gauge reads properly again, but it only lasts until I refill then it goes back to running out exactly at 1/4. I tried opening both sides of the tank to see if I could see anything wrong (the fuel gauge worked flawlessly for 5 years before the swap) and nothing seemed out of sorts... I believe also that if I clear codes on the other car ECUs (ABS/A/C, etc..) (the stock one is not there anymore), the fuel gauge starts reading correctly but again reverts back once I refill it.

Do you have any ideas? Thanks.

Ohh! hmm.. Well i know why. Has it been fixed yet? Did someone did the swap for you or was it a kit?

Anyways. So... long story.. when removing power to the cluster the cluster looses its calibration memory so it doesn't have anything saved. This calibration is the "MAX" and "MIN".. It needs this as part of the EVAP system. So on first reset, cluster only uses the Resistor level sensor only to calculate fuel level. Once it goes into one fuel cycle .. from Full-ish to empty to back to full.. then its fully calibrated it starts using other data bits coming from the ECU saying its fuel usage...Its part of your "fuel economy" in your cluster. By any chance is your fuel economy working? That is a special data that Each engine kind is a bit different.

Wait so besides in your swap you get ABS/ AC errors and stuff? Did you wire those in or was that a kit?

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by geraldjust

Ohh! hmm.. Well i know why. Has it been fixed yet? Did someone did the swap for you or was it a kit?

Anyways. So... long story.. when removing power to the cluster the cluster looses its calibration memory so it doesn't have anything saved. This calibration is the "MAX" and "MIN".. It needs this as part of the EVAP system. So on first reset, cluster only uses the Resistor level sensor only to calculate fuel level. Once it goes into one fuel cycle .. from Full-ish to empty to back to full.. then its fully calibrated it starts using other data bits coming from the ECU saying its fuel usage...Its part of your "fuel economy" in your cluster. By any chance is yours working?

Wait so besides in your swap you get ABS/ AC errors and stuff? Did you wire those in or was that a kit?

It's the Pure Automotive kit.

The fuel economy is off. It shows doing like 20-28 mpg but in reality it's doing like 13 mpg.

There's no other error, ABS and AC all work as intended, but there are some codes on some of the remaining chassis "computers" when I check for codes with an Ecutek cable ( I will check which codes and upload them). So it seems that my "fuel economy" calculation being off is what is making my fuel gauge not work properly? Any ideas on how to fix this?

[geraldjust]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

It's the Pure Automotive kit.

The fuel economy is off. It shows doing like 20-28 mpg but in reality it's doing like 13 mpg.

There's no other error, ABS and AC all work as intended, but there are some codes on some of the remaining chassis "computers" when I check for codes with an Ecutek cable ( I will check which codes and upload them). So it seems that my "fuel economy" calculation being off is what is making my fuel gauge not work properly? Any ideas on how to fix this?

Wait is it your average fuel economy or the "live" current economy meter?

Well Yes is part of the data that should be coming out of the Motec. nt to familiar with there software. Or if Pure automotive is sending the proper fuel economy to the cluster but thats def part of the issue. Perhaps they have a procedure to calibrate it.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by geraldjust

Wait is it your average fuel economy or the "live" current economy meter?

Well Yes is part of the data that should be coming out of the Motec. nt to familiar with there software. Or if Pure automotive is sending the proper fuel economy to the cluster but thats def part of the issue. Perhaps they have a procedure to calibrate it.

I've stopped looking, because now I have it on the "Trip A" which I reset every fill up and know I have to fill up before 170 miles.

I know distinctively the first time I ran out of gas, I was cruising trying to see how much gas I could save, and it was showing me on the "live", 35-38 mpg range but there was no way I was doing that well. At most, the best I could have been doing maybe 18-20 mpg.

I 'll try and talk to Pure about this incorrect information being the culprit of running out of gas early. And I can see it, I see the needle running down way to slow for the amount of gas I have left going by the total miles on "trip A" and the mpg counter being noticeably too high.

Thank you for pointing me on what seems to be the right direction!

@ILLSMOQ look at this.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by geraldjust

Ohh! hmm.. Well i know why. Has it been fixed yet? Did someone did the swap for you or was it a kit?

Anyways. So... long story.. when removing power to the cluster the cluster looses its calibration memory so it doesn't have anything saved. This calibration is the "MAX" and "MIN".. It needs this as part of the EVAP system. So on first reset, cluster only uses the Resistor level sensor only to calculate fuel level. Once it goes into one fuel cycle .. from Full-ish to empty to back to full.. then its fully calibrated it starts using other data bits coming from the ECU saying its fuel usage...Its part of your "fuel economy" in your cluster. By any chance is your fuel economy working? That is a special data that Each engine kind is a bit different.

Wait so besides in your swap you get ABS/ AC errors and stuff? Did you wire those in or was that a kit?

I wanted to let you know that I got in contact with Pure and their Motec guru and YES, you are absolutely correct that the "fuel economy" affects the gauge reading. There is a value on the Motec that needs to be adjusted so that the Fuel economy reading is accurate with what the LS motor is consuming. I was able to adjust it to be really close to the real MPG I am getting. Last tank it showed accurately. Will run one more tank really close to empty to confirm it is all fixed.

Thank you very much because I would have never thought to ask the question had you not suggested it!!

[geraldjust]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

I wanted to let you know that I got in contact with Pure and their Motec guru and YES, you are absolutely correct that the "fuel economy" affects the gauge reading. There is a value on the Motec that needs to be adjusted so that the Fuel economy reading is accurate with what the LS motor is consuming. I was able to adjust it to be really close to the real MPG I am getting. Last tank it showed accurately. Will run one more tank really close to empty to confirm it is all fixed.

Thank you very much because I would have never thought to ask the question had you not suggested it!!

Thats great news! I know it had to be something simple in order to get that to work.

Hopefully you have a better consistent fuel level.

[BRX]

@geraldjust this is Al, from the 3UR swap. Didn't know you were active here.


Anyway, regarding the fuel level. So now we know what is behind the false readings but for us not using standalones I don't think it's possible to accurately emulate the fuel economy.


I see that the first time after resetting the economy CPU, the level would read properly using the resistors. Is it possible to reset it every time ignition is turned on? or am I over complicating it and your next update will fix this?

[geraldjust]

Originally Posted by BRX

@geraldjust this is Al, from the 3UR swap. Didn't know you were active here.


Anyway, regarding the fuel level. So now we know what is behind the false readings but for us not using standalones I don't think it's possible to accurately emulate the fuel economy.


I see that the first time after resetting the economy CPU, the level would read properly using the resistors. Is it possible to reset it every time ignition is turned on? or am I over complicating it and your next update will fix this?

HEY! yeah i started here not to long ago.

Yeah like other have said. When resetting the cluster or cutting all power. It goes into learning mode for till next full fillup.

What ive seen some people do is have a momentary open button for the power wire. This resets it after a fillup.

Il be working on a update with my adapter. But each case will be different as each engine on average consumes different amount of fuel.

[Irace86.2.0]

I’m very naive on electronics, so don’t beat me up too much here...

What is stopping someone from swapping a motor and using the stock ecu and harness to run everything then using a product like ECUTEK or OFT to create a map/tune? The obvious obstacle is if someone swaps a motor with more cylinders then that could be a problem, but say someone did a f20, k20/24, 3sge, ej, etc, couldn’t it work?

The proposal would be to adapt the stock sensors and controllers to the swapped motor. In some cases, this may be as simple as splicing wires. In other cases, this may mean creating a custom retrofit like in the case of the throttle body and sensors/actuators, removing the new motor’s TB, make a custom bracket then mount the FA20 TB. For other sensors like the MAP sensor of AIT sensor, create bungs in the new manifold.

If this is not possible then please explain. If it is possible then what sensors or actuators would be the hardest to adapt, in general, understanding that there are differences between the different motors? If it is possible, would an ECUTEK work, and if not, what would? Would tuning be different? Could a standard map from the new motor be used?

[BRX]

One guy on Facebook tried to swap a 2AZ-FE using this method. He actually made it quite far and it started for a second or two before stalling. Eventually he went with the stock 2AZ ECU + an AEM ECU of some sort.

Theoretically, this method could work but there are a lot of obstacles that would make it very impractical and almost impossible.

The biggest two obstacles I see are the crank sensor and VVT. Saying creating a bung for a sensor is easy but you'll need very precise machining to set it perfectly. As far as I know, OFT and Ecutek aren't meant to change all sensor reading parameters even if it was possible.

With proper R&D and a specific "sensor swap kit" you could do it but I doubt a company would spend that much time and money for a single engine type swap when you could pay the same for a standalone ECU or just use the stock ECU with a CAN translator like I did.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by BRX

One guy on Facebook tried to swap a 2AZ-FE using this method. He actually made it quite far and it started for a second or two before stalling. Eventually he went with the stock 2AZ ECU + an AEM ECU of some sort.

Theoretically, this method could work but there are a lot of obstacles that would make it very impractical and almost impossible.

The biggest two obstacles I see are the crank sensor and VVT. Saying creating a bung for a sensor is easy but you'll need very precise machining to set it perfectly. As far as I know, OFT and Ecutek aren't meant to change all sensor reading parameters even if it was possible.

With proper R&D and a specific "sensor swap kit" you could do it but I doubt a company would spend that much time and money for a single engine type swap when you could pay the same for a standalone ECU or just use the stock ECU with a CAN translator like I did.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Thanks for the reply.

Do other engines not already have a crank position sensor? Would the wires not match up; ie, one car uses two and the other uses three?

Couldn't VVT be eliminated by getting fixed cams and just tuning the cams for top end (assuming the engine that is used has some type of VVT)? Doesn't VVT essentially exist for economy driving and perhaps more low end power mostly? Couldn't parameters for augmenting VVT be eliminated or made to be static in a tuning capacity?

I wouldn't be thinking of having a company do this for me. This would be for a DIYer who wants to take on a project car.